BBC radio4 - 07.08.2007 (diffusée le 9 août)
Kate MC est interviewée la veille du jour fatidique où elle comprend que la PJ les soupçonne de ne pas avoir dit la vérité.
Les commentaires en italiques sont ceux de Peter Hyatt, qui a analysé cet entretien le 9 décembre 2016.
Kate McCann: By Herself
As a biological mother, we have the victim's mother speaking for herself, being interviewed alone. A missing child is the most extreme event a mother can experience; considered more than death due to the unknown; the inability to process. Therefore, it is expected that the mother will speak for herself, with the pronoun "I." If the mother uses the plural pronoun, the analyst should be on alert for guilt. Even when standing next to a spouse, a mother will often quickly move back to the pronoun "I" due to the intense, instinctive mother-child relationship. Our expectation for a "taken" child remains the same:
*concern for what the child is experiencing
*begging the kidnapper to care for Madeleine
*begging the kidnapper to return her.
Kate McCann : Well obviously I can't talk too much about the investigation. Erm we're just trying to get through one day at a time, to be honest, Jenny. Erm.. some of the stuff we are not sure about anyway, and we don't know if it's true or not so erm (inhales audibly at this point) we're just coping day by day really. We've got lots of support, erm, very close family and friends and, as you're aware we've had a huge support from the general public erm and we are just trying to have.... (inhales audibly again and next bit inaudible and said within a kind of supressed laugh) obviously with as normal a life as possible for the twins, you know.
En somme elle ne répond pas. Il est vrai que les MC sont tenus à la discrétion eu égard à l'enquête, mais c'est une règle qu'ils n'appliquent que lorsqu'elle sert leurs intérêts. Ils suggèrent toujours qu'ils en savent plus qu'ils n'en disent, il est essentiel pour eux de paraître être dans le secret des dieux. S'ils laissaient entendre que la PJ ne les met pas au parfum ou pas toujours, l'ombre du soupçon tomberait sur eux.
We first take note that the mother refuses to speak for herself, quelling the maternal instinct. Next we note that there is no expressed concern for Madeleine. There is no pleading with the kidnapper (s). We see that there is a difference in care levels:
"lots of support" from family and friends, but"huge support" from the general public.
With no concern expressed for the victim, we have not only concern expressed for self, but a priority of being seen in a positive light with the public. The lack of commenting on the case comes via 'restriction' in that she "obviously can't talk too much" suggesting inability. This may be due to police not sharing much information as they are suspicious of the McCann's kidnapping story. In each statement analyzed thus far, the McCanns have never expressed any concern for what Madeleine was currently experiencing, affirming for analysis what they confessed later to, via the embedded confession:
Madeleine died in their apartment and they hid the body incredibly well.As the British public carefully followed this case, citizens, without any formal training, felt 'uneasy' at the focus of the McCanns upon self and not upon the victim. This 'uneasy' or questioning feeling increases suspicion. As the public felt lied to, the natural sting of insult came into play, only to increase each time the McCanns took to the public forum to express concern for themselves, and not for the actual victim. Intuitively, this is upsetting for parents to hear, as they wondered what it would be like to be in the McCanns' "shoes." This is a natural outworking of human empathy. Even when a parent is asked, "How are you coping?" there is an expectation that the parent will answer with the theme of "but" followed by expression of concern for the victim. No matter what the parent is suffering, the parental instincts demand more empathy, concentration and emphasis upon the victim. This is the common theme of parents willing to sacrifice their own lives for their children. It is something the British public, as well as the western world, expects to hear in such a case.
This is precisely where we expect to hear a denial of the allegations, plainly and without qualification.
"You know" is a figure of speech; a habit. As with all such, we look at what questions and topics cause its inclusion and which ones do not. The phrase, "you know" shows an acute awareness of the interviewer's (subsequent audience') presence. Note the need to tell the public that, which should have no necessity of address: "we've got a very good working relationship with the Portuguese Police..." What parents of a kidnapped child would have anything less? This is a linguistic signal that there is a very strained relationship with the Portuguese Police, and likely that they have one or two officers of whom they feel bonded, not discerning that this is a tactic by police to gain information.Les relations sont effectivement tendues, comme en témoignera la réunion qui eut lieu le 8 août, soit le lendemain de cet entretien (diffusé le 9).
We are not given a denial of the allegations.
KMC : (Inhales loudly and for a few seconds) I'm sorry Jenny, I can't, I can't really talk too much about the investigation. Erm obviously with judicial secrecy and we are witnesses to a crime so.. I don't want to do anything that might jeopardise the investigation and so jeopardise Madeleine so er it would probably be best if we can veer away a little bit from the investigation.
Ils ne sont pas "témoins", ils sont "victimes" et le seront jusqu'au moment où, en septembre, ils seront faits "témoins assistés".
JM : How do you deal though with the discovery of new forensic details, stories of, you know, children being spotted in various different parts of Europe; people taking DNA evidence from glasses in case it was Madeleine. How are you dealing with that on a day-to-day basis ?In Statement Analysis, we flag the words "I'm sorry" in every statement, no matter the context. These are words that often work their way into the language of guilty parties. It is to be flagged only. It is not a conclusion. Yet, when we have analysis that shows deception and guilt, we find its entry in such guilty statements. She, again, says she "can't" ("really" talk "too much") with qualifiers. This is another signal that the police are concealing information from the McCanns in their attempt to prove the McCanns have committed a crime.
KMC : (Longish pause) If I'm honest, we don't read the papers very often (small kind of suppressed laugh) erm.. and that's largely because at the beginning erm anything we did read or anything we watched on the television, there's so much speculation (inhales audibly) and speculation is upsetting and it doesn't help us. You know so we try and veer away really. (Inhales audibly) Erm, the good thing that I'd say about the sightings, I mean we don't hear about them all, Jenny, but the good thing is it just, it says to us that people are still looking and that's really important, so we'd encourage that.
Il semble leur suffire de savoir que les gens cherchent, ils ne s'intéressent pas à ce que les gens croient trouver !
JM : What do you remember, Kate, of the last day that you spent together as a family?This habit of speech tells us that the subject recognizes her own dishonesty and now, by employing this phrase, "really wants to be believed." Note the present tense denial about reading is unreliable. This is combined with "if" she is honest: this is a strong signal that they are very well read about their own case. This is confirmed by her unnecessary need to explain "why" they don't read. This is a point of deception. It is interesting to read what is a "good" thing: "people are still looking", without telling us who people are still looking for. This is an example of avoidance of a direct lie; which causes a spike in internal stress for the subject. Deception indicated.
JM : We've read that she told you what a wonderful time she'd had that day (Kate says "Yeh" in background). How important is it for you to hold onto?a. brilliant holiday is clarified as
b. really good time
The kids, however, had a "fantastic" time, with emphasis upon Madeleine. Prior analysis suggests that something went wrong that was unexpected by the anesthesiologist Kate. Note "I can't go into specifics" again speaks to restriction. In statement analysis, "the normal effect" speaks to something that took place out of the norm that she does not want to address. Speculating from other analysis: we should consider the children were given sedation to allow for "quiet" for the McCanns. Consider the possibility of one exception to this successful quieting of the children as addressed in earlier analysis. "Happy" continues the theme of 'normal' and shows the need to persuade.
Importance is going to be:
a. what Madeleine is going through while with her captor and
b. bringing Madeleine safely home
Not for Kate..
KMC : Well that's, that's really important. I mean, I mean it was obvious to me that she'd had a really good week anyway. Erm..it just so happened that on the Thursday she said that it was the best (emphasises on the word 'best') day of the week she'd had. Erm and you know she was quite tired but she was happy and tired. And er..that's how I remember Madeleine.
Kate uses the habit of speech "I mean" when she feels a need for emphasis. Here this need is compounded. She then goes on to describe what could be a drugged or sedated Madeleine, which is consistent with the wording and prior analysis. Note that "tired" is the word she choses when she could describe anything about her daughter. It is a word so important that she assigns it :
a. To the very last day seeing her daughter alive
b. Repeats it.
(2) Cette longue pause suivie d'une non-réponse révèle que Kate MC a été prise au dépourvu. Mais pourquoi ? Le story telling de la découverte n'avait pas encore été mis au point à l'époque, il ne cessera du reste de varier. La question de Jenny Murray aussi bien est formulée avec délicatesse, mais sans embarras.
This is a small but significant point. She is asked a "yes or no" question which reduces the stress for the subject to lie:
a. It begins with a pause. This means the yes or no question is sensitive to the subject.
b. After the pause to think, she gives the answer "yes", which is appropriate by itself but she brings in "the reinforcements" of "she was"
c. For further emphasis, she wants to add in the word "yes" but it is reduced to "yeah."
Deception indicated. This simple "yes or no" question produced a sensitive reaction, weakness, and a need to persuade. Taken together, we have deception.
This is the allegation of neglect to be answered. It produces a lengthy response, which often indicates an increase of emotion. The first thing to note after 2 sensitivity indicators (pause, and the habit of speech with "I mean") is that this question, posed to the mother, produced the pronoun "I" in a subject that relies mostly upon the need to share guilt, employing the pronoun "we" or "us."This means the question is very personal to Kate.Kate est certainement une "bonne mère", elle ne supporte pas qu'on la soupçonne de négligence.
KMC : (Audible intake of breath) I mean, it's a good question, Jenny, and it's not like I don't keep going over that in my head, but I think the fact that I went for dinner ..erm and obviously we were checking on them very regularly erm (inhales audibly) says to me I obviously felt it was incredibly safe. If I'd have had to think for one second (emphasizes on the word "second") whether that was okay, it wouldn't have happened. Erm now why did I feel it was that safe, I can only assume, I mean I don't know if you've been out to Praia da Luz, it's a very happy erm.. calm.. erm.. place, and it actually feels incredibly safe. I mean I've never been to Portugal before but a lot of my friends and family have and they go because it's a family-friendly place (inhales audibly) and I can only assume that, possibly I was lulled into a false sense of security, I don't know, but (does a kind of tongue clucking noise, then inhales audibly) you know everybody knows, we.. we were dining very closely to where they were, we were checking them very regularly, and (voice raise here like it takes on a more positivity tone to it) the reason that we were (then tone returns to as before) checking them regularly, Jenny, was just in case (emphasise on the words 'just in case' very fervently) somebody woke up, which they don't usually do, I mean I never thought for one minute – and who would – you know, think for one minute that something as awful as this would happen.
There have been no verbal indications that this death was intended and here we see a mother's instinct provoked. The context is the decision to leave the children alone while going to dinner. Defensive posture is natural. In an overall analysis where this particular subject refuses to take responsibility, this is a departure from the standard and strongly suggests that this death was not intentional or premeditated. Although there are verbal indictors, including the embedded confession, that Madeleine died as a result of neglect, the neglect is likely to be "criminal neglect" if any form of sedation was used. The "incredibly well" cover up is an attendant crime, after the fact.JM : How did you discover that she wasn't there?
From all the analysis thus far, I believe that Madeleine died as a result of a fall, after awakening unexpectedly, disorientated ("very tired") from some form of medicinal sedation. That Kate McCann is an anesthesiologist (elle travaillait comme généraliste) is something that only affirms the analysis; the analysis without this knowledge would stand on its own merit. While talking of the last days of Maddie's life, a parent could choose any words out of an internal dictionary of more than 30,000 words. Repeatedly and consistently she has chosen such words as "tired" and "quiet" as recurrent themes. We have the victim repeatedly referred to as "very tired" and parents who repeatedly address the need for "quiet." L'élément "fatigue de MMC" n'apparaît dans aucune des dépositions de mai. Describing the last hour of her daughter's life, the mother speaks of things ingested by her daughter, first in a generic way, but then, showing a need for both clarification and detail, specific foods. This question produced a long, emotional response. The use of "I" is now conflicted with self defense of neglect. Consider that most parents of missing or kidnapped children blame themselves thoroughly beyond reason. The typical thought pattern of innocent parents is self accusatory.
The McCanns consistently have focused upon their own well being. In each statement and interview analyzed to date, neither McCann has used a single word to describe what Madeleine must be going through in the hands of the kidnapper. This is akin to "overcoming" parental instinct, which would mean sociopathic parents, something not indicated in the language. If they are not sociopaths, there is one other choice : The child is beyond parental care because she is dead.
This is what has signaled, along with past tense references, that the "missing" child was known, by the guilty parent, to be deceased. It is a standard point for analyzing the statements around missing persons.
In this singular answer, there is too much sample to thoroughly analyze here; it is enough for an entire article by itself. The color coding is training specific that those in formal training recognize.
We view the many weak assertions and we view something critical in the case : Innocent parents not only blame themselves, they excessively blame themselves. Parents with guilty knowledge of their child's "disappearance" will seek to justify their actions. This is a very plain point of demarcation between the two.
An innocent parent is going to take all the blame and responsibility because the decision made led to the kidnapping. Instead, we have the highest levels of sensitivity in language, along with weak assertions and a need to persuade that all point to the priority of her answer : The need, not to find Madeleine, but to justify self. This answer, by itself, is an entire lesson in Statement Analysis, broken down word by word. In S/A not only does every word matter, but every letter can be examined. We look at her use of words to better understand her personal subjective dictionary, such as "incredible" and the habitual "I mean." We look at what topics cause stuttering, from a non-stutterer. We note the word "normal", in any form. We note "obvious", which, in Statement Analysis, we do not accept. It means one wishes us to accept something without question but unless the subject tells us something, we have nothing to accept. It is part of "non interpretation" and not being led into accepting deception by accepting something "without question" where the subject refuses to state something. If she cannot say "Madeleine was kidnapped", we shall not say it for her. Madeleine, instead, according to the internal dictionary of the mother, "disappeared" where she 'cannot be seen.' If she "disappeared", rather than was "kidnapped", there is no reason to give a physical description to help the public spot her; after all, she is 'invisible' which fits the language of having hid the body "incredibly well." This lengthy answer is a good sample for study. Within it are indicators of sedation, as well as self preservation and it speaks to Madeleine, again, as being beyond maternal concerns. Madeleine is "safe" as if 'in heaven', which is why there is never a need to be upset (linguistically) over what Madeleine may be experiencing.
KMC : (Longish pause then tongue clicking noise) Again, I can't go (suppressed sounding laugh) into too many details, but obviously when I went back to check on them, erm..she wasn't there. (Kate goes on to say "And I knew" but Jenny has started her next question) (3)
(3) Kate MC, ce truisme le montre, est impressionnée tout au long de l'entretien par le ton affable et la voix ferme de Jenni Murray. Le récit de la découverte n'a pas encore été élaboré et Kate ne sait manifestement pas quoi dire. Aussi essaie-t-elle une fois de plus de s'abriter derrière le secret de l'instruction (ironiquement elle refusera de répondre à une question similaire, posée par la PJ, un mois plus tard).
She is restricted and in culmination of analysis, the restriction is self preservation and the consequences for "going into too many details" which would implicate her and her husband. She "can't", due to consequence. This is a statement based upon conclusion of 4 complete statements' conclusion.
a. "Well" means that she needs a pause to think of her answer. Due to the hormonal response of an emergency situation, her clarity would be stark (something she later admitted in an interview). This precludes the need to pause to consider what to say.
b. "Obviously" It is not "obvious" unless she tells us what she did. We do not accept anything that is "obvious" unless the person reliably tells us.
c. "Kind of" is not to look but only to "kind of", which belies in inconsistency the word "obviously" "I looked" is strong. "I kind of looked" is to refuse to commit to an action that should be "obvious" and need to pause to consider.
d. "Double looked" is betrayed (incongruent) by "kind of"
This is a strong indication that she is not speaking from experiential memory, but from scripted language. Scripted language is more difficult to follow because there is no hormonal attachment as there is in experiential memory.
there was twenty seconds of, you know, she must be there (suppressed sort of laugh). Errm, but there was no doubt in my mind within (suppressed sort of laugh) probably thirty seconds, errm, that Madeleine had been taken from that room. I can't go into the reasons why I thought that but it was... no doubt whatsoever. And Madeleine wouldn't have walked out herself. I know that (the words 'I know that' spoken with an air of complete cocksuredness about them). (4)a. "errm" is the pauseb. "you know" is the habit of speech that shows acute awareness of the presence of the interviewer (and audience) at this specific point of the statementc. it slows down the paced. "obviously" means to accept without being told. We do not.
(4) La question était pourtant simple, pourquoi tant de détours et d'hésitations ? La preuve par le volet et la fenêtre ouverts (par effraction) était dans les médias britanniques dès le 4 au matin. JM interroge les émotions de Kate, pas les éléments probants circonstanciels.
The very moment where her maternal instincts are inflamed by hormonal increase of an emergency situation is precisely where she is vague. Note she continues to avoid "kidnapped" but uses "had been taken" which should then continue in her language. She asserts, as mother, that she knew, not that Madeleine was missing, but "had been taken." This is now front and center of all things: Madeleine has been taken, meaning that someone has her, she is alive, and she must be returned. The language should not change to accept anything less than this notion of abduction or kidnapping. Yet, the language changes and Madeleine is no longer "taken", from which should could be recovered, but Madeleine has experienced a "disappearance", in which she cannot be recovered, therefore, no description necessary. This is why there is no appeal to the kidnappers. Portugal Police, as seen through the language of the McCanns, did not believe Madeleine was kidnapped.
The Interviewer has displayed her own belief system and has focused attention upon the McCanns and not upon the victim revealing the IR's own doubts. An extreme point of sensitivity has been touched upon: Scrutiny. Publicity is a priority of the parents of a missing or kidnapped child. Innocent parents seek it out and will complain when it is reduced. From the earliest moments of this case, the McCanns have verbally asked for the opposite: they want "privacy" instead of publicity to help return the kidnapped, or "taken" victim.KMC : I mean..what, what, what you said about me, Jenny, is absolutely true. I mean I don't like – you know when you say "public eye" I mean I don't particularly like having my photograph taken;
Here we see lots of sensitivity indicators about the topic of publicity for Kate, herself. One should question : Does she like her picture being taken?
I don't like doing interviews ;
This is a strong statement. About pictures, she can make no such strong statement, but interviews require answers. She does not like doing them. Note the strong pronoun "I" and no need to persuade via additional language. She may like having her picture taken and she may like making statements, but she does not like "interviews."I don't like doing presentations but (inhales audibly) it's not about me –
Since Madeleine is the victim, this is an unnecessary statement.Do you know what I mean –
Questions within statements are always important; they are made because the subject is seeking information.It's not about me, it's not about Gerry, it's about Madeleine and we will do (inhales audibly) absolutely anything and everything
which we think might help find Madeleine –Here is an interesting point for new readers of statement analysis : We have what appears to be a strong statement that they will do anything and everything to get Madeleine back. Is this true? First note that we have been told three times that which is unnecessary : being about them. This is done in the negative, increasing its import. Repetition and Negative sentences make it very sensitive. How sensitive? This indicates motive : for the subject (Kate), it is about her and it is about Gerry. It is not about Madeleine. Madeleine is beyond help. Kate and Gerry are in need of help. Next, will they do "anything and everything" to locate Madeleine? Let's listen to their words:
1. "...we will do absolutely anything and everything" uses the additional and unnecessary word "absolutely" in a place where no such persuasion should be necessary by parents. This point of sensitivity now raises a question :
Since the biological mother of a kidnapped child feels the need to tell us that she is willing to do anything and everything, unnecessarily, to find the victim, will she put any conditions upon this willingness to find Madeleine? By using the word "absolutely", she is telling us that there are no conditions upon her and Gerry's willingness to recover Madeleine from the kidnapper. This is unnecessary to say, suggesting to the analyst that the subject has conditions she will place upon her and her husband's willingness. Therefore, the analyst should be "on alert" for "less than absolute" willingness to do anything and everything to find Madeleine. She does not make us wait long:
"anything and everything" is now immediately reduced to things that only she and Gerry, together, "think" will help find Madeleine. Therefore, if experts, or police "think" something contrary to what they jointly think, it will not be done. yet, she is not finished there. She did not say "which we think will help find Madeleine" but said "which we think might help find Madeleine". This takes a biological mother's willingness to do anything and everything and reduces it first to only what she and her husband think, and then reduces it further with unnatural pessimism which is contrary to the natural denial of parents. Note the dating of this is only 3 months into the kidnapping. Kate is not doing anything and everything to find Madeleine, but qualifies it carefully to decisions only made by she and her husband jointly, excluding police, and here the assertion is weakened further by the help only 'might' help find Madeleine. This affirms the analysis that Madeleine is beyond help and it affirms this : Kate and Gerry do not want Madeleine found. They worked "incredibly" to hide her body. Had her remains been found early in the investigation, toxicology reports would have been able to be complete. Peut-être savent-ils que les restes de Madeleine sont irrécupérables.help find Madeleine (inhales audibly) and, you know, we don't know if we've done the right thing we've just done what we felt was the right thing to do and that was to publicise Madeleine's disappearance and try and get as many people looking as possible. And if that means I have to put myself in the public eye then I have to get over that and do it.
Note that it is not "taken", or "kidnapped" or "abducted" but the safer "disappearance" from which she will not be found. Hence, the lack of confidence in her own words. She reverses the law of economy to qualify her own willingness. Hence, "absolutely", as sensitive, is explained, not by us, but by her own qualification that she placed upon their willingness.JM : But how much do you worry, as some people have suggested that it may be counter-productive, that it could motivate her abductors to hide her away?
Here the IR makes a critical mistake in Analytical Interviewing. In AI, we do not introduce words the subject has not used, whenever possible. In this case, it is a point of extreme sensitivity. Kate and Gerry do not assert kidnapping nor abduction. By doing this, she has made parroting language possible, reducing the stress of direct lying. Since parroting is a smooth and seamless transition in language, we should note if this is 'overcome' or 'overruled' by the subject using different language. With "abducted", if this word is not used, after being introduced, it would, again, weaken the notion of kidnapping; that is, the deliberate taking of the victim, in the language of the subject.KMC : (Longish pause, sigh) I mean we always knew, ermm, there was a slight risk of that, and to be honest, Jenny, I mean, everything we've done since Madeleine was taken has a slight risk, and I mean, that's, that's a horrible situation to be in, to be having to take risks and to think that something you, you do could possibly jeopardise her, but, you know we had to make a decision and..(intake of breath).. we couldn't sit and do nothing and we honestly felt that it's the best thing to do. And what, what, what we have heard recently from NICMEC, the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children, in Washington, was they totally backed what we've done, they've said 100% you have done the right thing. An..and they're experienced. (pause and tongue clicking).. .
I believe her. I believe that everything they've done here has risk. This is why they were kept from telling the truth ; the consequences and even the risk of trial would destroy their careers, and risk not only imprisonment, but also risk loss of custody of the twins. Note the change of language from "us" and "we" to "you" at a sensitive point : "you, you" with the universal use of the 2nd person. This is appropriate for commonalities that people experience. The kidnapping of a child is not common nor universal. It is extreme and it is very personal. This use of "you" is to distance herself from the sentence. The entrance of "honest" indicates the lack of honesty within the overall interview. The need to justify "why", even after the fact, is used here with the specific name of the organization and its location. We now have more detail about this organization than 4 statements (including 2 interviews) revealed about Madeleine, herself. The use of the organization's name and location is a form of "ingratiating"; that is, to appear as part of 'professionals' and 'officials." C'est l'argument d'autorité. This is particularly set up against "absolutely anything and everything" being reduced to only what she and Gerry think is appropriate; not Portugal Police. This appeal to "legitimacy" is not lost on the IR :JM : Why do you .... (Kate continues with the last answer but what she says is inaudible – and Jenny carries on asking her question anyway) .. do they think it, why do they think it's the right thing?
KMC : Ermm, well, just, just, for an example, I mean obviously NICMEC see, ermm, you know, the good stories as well as the bad, and, you know, they're involved in children that are actually retrieved, and one in six of those children that are retrieved is because somebody's recognised the poster of that child. (deep intake of breath) You know NICMEC have been, you know, been going for twenty four years now, and there's a huge number of err, abductions, it's very sad there's a huge number of abductions in, in America, so they have got a great deal of experience.
Which is not to state an abduction took place in Portugal. This too, perhaps intuitively, is picked up by the IR:JM : Why did you choose to stay in Portugal?
Please consider that they have shown knowledge of a de facto status of being suspected in this case by Portugal Police. Note the word "obviously" when connected to the Portugal Police:KMC : (Long Pause and then an intake of breath) For me, err, And I know there may be possibly no logic attached to it (half a laugh or a smiling hmmph here) I just feel a bit closer to Madeleine here, ermm, and obviously we're closer to the investigation here. (intake of breath) Ermmm, I know some of that might sound a little bit (short intake of breath) bizzare, I don't know, but ermm, you know, because we, we don't know where Madeleine is?
The mother of a 'kidnapped' child feels the need to tell us, in the negative, about not knowing where Madeleine is. This is unnecessary. This is in the negative. This is an indication of knowledge of Madeleine's location. Next, she gives another pessimistic response :She could be anywhere,
Therefore, she isn't likely to be found. This is similar to when guilty parents say that they will "search forever" with no end date in sight. OJ Simpson said he would search for the "real killer" for "the rest of my life." These are verbal indications of guilt. Here, we have the natural denial of a biological mother over ruled with specified vagueness: "she could be anywhere." This is to verbally discourage search efforts with a pessimistic statement. This is consistent with the other analysis: they do not want Madeleine found.ermm, and there's no reason to say that she's closer to me here in Portugal than if I was in the UK. Ermm, I mean, I'm also aware that there's things that practically, err, might be easier err, at home, but, if, er er.. it's just a gut feeling really, and at the moment this is the right thing for us to do. I don't know how we'll feel (long pause)..
JM : Do..do you.. (Kate continues her previous reply)
KMC : ..in a month's time or you know later.
JM : What about the twins though? I wondered how worried you might be that your focus is so much on Madeleine and perhaps not quite enough on the younger children.
Here we see further linguistic indicators of guilt from the other statements where the mother of a kidnapped child has a need to portray herself as a good mother :KMC : (Long pause and then a clicking sound) I mean, Sean and Amelie you know, but we're very aware of their needs and you know the first four or five days, you know, it was, it was very difficult to us, to erm, to function, ermm, (intake of breath) and obviously we were very reliant on family, family then, to, to, to help us with the twins as well. Err, I mean, the huge emotional and physical impact, that sort of acute grief reaction had, is, you know, indescribable really. (Intake of breath) Ermm, but now we.. we spend a huge amount of time with the twins, I mean, they, you know, they certainly wouldn't get to spend this amount of time with Gerry if we were at home and he was working. (intake of breath) Ermm, you know, they, they go to the kids' club in the morning for a couple of hours, which is a little bit like the nursery at home and they get to do lots of creative things as well as sort of swimming and things like that.
(intake of breath) We tend to spend the whole afternoon with them and the evening until they go to bed. So any work or meetings that we have, get done in the morning or late in the evening. Ermm, but they.. they're very, very happy, they've always been surrounded by a loving, protective family and friends if we're not there. And we've taken professional advice as well, just to check that everything we're doing for them is, is thought to be correct.She spends "huge amount of time with the twins" but when they are at kids' club, she gives a specific description of what they do there, including "creative things", and "swimming". This is another signal of guilt. Consider the context of this statement : Madeleine is in the hands of a stranger who kidnapped her. We get no words about what Madeleine is going through but details on what the twins are going through. The twins are not the victim. "Huge amount of time" is now "the whole afternoon" : This is a mother who does not thrive on close time with her children and should be considered in light of the need for "quiet" and the possible sedation used. Just as Kate had the need to persuade her audience how "happy" Madeleine was, she continues:
Here the audience is now reminded, while a child is missing, how loving and protective a family they are.JM : How have you explained to them what might have happened to Madeleine?
KMC : (Clicking noise and large intake of breath) We haven't had to, to be honest, I mean, they.. they've only just turned two and a half, ermm, ermm, you know, and they.. they don't have any concept of time.
At two and a half, the mother acknowledges that the children's development does not include, at this point, a concept of time. This is accurate. Please consider this in light of the actual quote attributed to Madeleine in the first analysis (l'épisode des larmes soit-disant rapporté le jeudi 3 matin). The mother knows what child development looks like. The quote was "incongruent" and was scripted. Here, we have 2 1/2 year olds "commenting", which further suggests scripting by the parents:I mean they're very aware that Madeleine isn't there. Ermmm, and they, they, they have commented that they miss her, errmm, and obviously the... there's photographs of Madeleine, you know, around the accommodation. We talk about Madeleine a lot, err, they refer to Madeleine's things, you know, sort of Madeleine's bag, Madeleine's Cuddle Cat, and they include her in their play.
Since their day consists of so many things, we should consider that in her vast vocabulary, she could choose to tell us about anything. Next, consider from previous analysis that Madeleine is deceased, they are lying and there are indications of sedation. In context of this, consider the choice of words and activity that the mother of the victim uses here :You know, they'll say a biscuit for Sean, a biscuit for Amelie, a biscuit for Madeleine.
Of an endless choice, she chooses this. Please refer to the original analysis where "ingestion" is examined. By itself, it appears innocuous, but when it is viewed in context, it takes on importance. The original analysis is here.Ermm, but we haven't at this stage had to go into any details and, to be fair, Jenny, we haven't actually got (short pause) a story we can tell them at the moment, because we don't know what's happened to Madeleine. All that I've said to them is that we're, you know, we.. we're looking very hard for Madeleine, but even things like that, that, you know, it's a split second thing and then they're off playing with Noddy or you know, whoever. You know, they don't, they don't dwell on it, they're actually very happy and don't appear distressed at all.
The repeated need to state what should not be stated indicates deception : "we don't know where she is" and "we don't know what happened to Madeleine" is the unnecessary repetition that indicates deception. This is to repeatedly deny having guilty knowledge without being accused.JM : How hard is it for you though when they seemed to be reacting as if Madeleine in any way is still there?
Here is another example of the language of nostalgia which indicates the processing of information regarding death :KMC : (Pause, clicking noise, intake of breath) I mean sometimes it does catch me, obviously, ermm, you know, if it's sort of unexpected and they suddenly start talking about her, ermm, ermm, but I, but I'm pleased they're talking about her, I don't want them to forget Madeleine I want them to, you know, for Madeleine to remain very much in their memory, so ermm, (clicking noise) yeah, occasionally it catches me, but it's good that they're talking about her I think.
No hope of reunification noted.JM : It seemed to those of us looking on, as if it it's been an incredibly hectic time for you when some people might think you.. you know.. might have just wanted to retreat home. You've been travelling the world, how helpful is the activity?
KMC : (long pause then intake of breath) I mean I think it does help. I mean there's, you know, we discovered from the minute that we realised that Madeleine had gone, how awful, helplessness feels. Ermm so we've basically just tried to stay focused and positive and think of, and take advice, but think of anything that we feel might benefit (big emphasise on the words 'might' especially and also 'benefit') ermm, you know, of, of us finding Madeleine really. Errmm and obviously by keeping active by publicising her disappearance ermm we've felt we've done that, certainly for Gerry ermm.. he's been, he's coped much better when he's been doing something, when he's been focused.
Note "disappearance" and the continued focus (priority) on the well being of the parents, not the victim. This tells us more than just Madeleine being beyond help; it indicates that the subject remains aware, and it is a priority, that they, themselves, are in need of help.JM : And what effect has it had on your relationship with your husband? I mean especially if he's the one especially who is benefiting from going, rushing around the world and you're at home with the children?
KMC : Yeah, I mean, to be honest I haven't been on many trips, Jenny, when we've been separated. I mean I know he went to Washington, but that was only a few days, and obviously at home Gerry has to go to conferences and stuff, so there isn't, there's nothing out the normal here from that point of view. Err we're lucky that we've got a very strong relationship, we've always had a strong relationship, and ermm I mean communication's always been important for us and we're well aware that it's vital at the moment. Ermm you know, we've got strengths and weaknesses you know, we reach different points at different times I guess, but we're managing to keep together and pull each other through when we need to.
With the priority upon themselves, we note among guilty parents of falsely reported missing children a need to portray themselves in a positive light while still 'confessing' something wrong. Sometimes it is in the unnecessary, "we are humans" or "we are only humans" but it is something which unnecessarily acknowledges fault in some way. Often, it is subtle. Here, she feels the need to say their "strengths and weaknesses." It is a natural and normal thing for any couple to say. Why, then, highlight it? Because of context. It comes in the midst of a kidnapped child in which the priority remains the well being of the subject, herself, and not the victim. It is similar, in analysis, to the emergence of the words, "I'm sorry" no matter the form in which they are presented. It is something we consider in advanced analysis in the form of "leakage" and psycho-linguistic profile. It further shows and affirms (when coupled with other analysis) that this was not an intended death but one of negligence.JM :And how do those strengths and weaknesses balance themselves out? I mean, what, what strengths and weaknesses does Gerry have and what strengths and weaknesses do you have?
KMC : (A very long pause, clicking noise and intake of breath) Ermm, I mean, you know, as I've mentioned before, sort of Gerry's strengths,
This is a phrase signaling that the subject is not working from experiential memory, but memory of what was said earlier.he's used to speaking in public, ermm and he handles that very well, ermm. (heavy sigh) Mine? I don't really like talking about my strengths too much (bit of a laugh) but, ermm you know, I mean I'm happy kind of doing you know, some.. some of the ... kind of perhaps the domestic stuff, as well, you know, the cooking. Ermm I mean the important thing really is whatever we've done we tend to.. to pair up as a team. Ermm you know when Gerry went to Washington we felt it was better that one person went rather than both of us. Ermm but it was vital for us to kind of ..(intake of breath).. keep in, ermm, contact regularly throughout that time. So often, we were on the phone three or four times a day just so I could be aware of, you know, who Gerry was meeting, what was getting discussed, or if there was anything that between us we needed to decide we could (intake of breath) And I think we're a very good and equal partnership really.
JM : How do you get through the time between the frantic activity, the quiet times and the nights?
Still no question about "What do you think Madeleine is going through right now? How does Madeleine interact with strangers? What do you wish to tell the kidnapper about her care? Does she need specific medications? Does she like her cereal a certain way?" These are natural questions that any parent would consider. Why are they absent from the McCanns? Due to deception. But why are they absent from the Interviewer's questions? Likely due to disbelief. If the interviewer was given the impression that Madeleine was, indeed, in the care of another, this would be a dominant theme: what she is going through and how do we get her back.KMC :Yeah, ermm, they often are as I say, very much with, with err.. with Sean and Amelie. So, (heavy sigh) you know, we're usually playing with them, sort of role play or reading stories or you know we're go for a walk, or they'll go for a swim or something, so, I mean that's, you know, very much as normal as we're going to get at the moment. Ermm evenings usually you.., you know, they're going to bed a little bit... the twins are going to bed a little bit later than would be normal at home. Ermm, (clicking noise and intake of breath) so, often we just kind of, ermm we have the usual night-time stories and then as I say once.. once they've gone to bed, we'll usually get on and do a little bit more work really.
At the beginning, police would be "very open" in giving the McCanns the obvious opportunity to tell the truth. There is a level of contempt within all liars. The liar holds his or her audience in contempt, believing them to be 'not smart enough' to discern the lies. Ou déçu de ne pas avoir été perçu pour ce qu'il est ? This begins very early in life and for habitual liars, it grows to include most all of society. The more success a liar has in childhood, the greater the contempt.JM : Do you sleep at night?
(There's a bit of overlap here – Kate is still answering the last question when Jenny poses this question.)
KMC : We tend to, we tend to have.. Yeah (this seems to be an acknowledgement that she heard the next question) .. dinner together, certainly still lunchtimes and evening meals are spent together as a family. And I describe those as very normal. (intake of breath) Ermm sleeping through the night? Yes, I do actually. I mean, the first four or five days was ermm. (clicking noise) I didn't sleep really, ermm as I mentioned earlier it was very hard to.. to function at all. Ermm but now I'm fine actually, I don't.. I'm usually quite tired to be honest by the time we get to bed. But I haven't had any problems sleeping.
JM : How much hope do you still have that you will find Madeleine alive?
KMC : (Long pause, tongue clicking, intake of breath) I do still have hope, Jenny, in fact I probably have more hope now than I did right at the beginning. Ermm it's also very important to hang on to that hope really. I mean it's so important to stay focused and positive and (sigh) you know, we haven't had any news to the contrary that Madeleine isn't alive, you know, and that.. and that's very important (intake of breath) and there have been many cases of children that have been found, ermm much later than this, so again that's reassuring. So the hope's still there.She has not expressed any hope, but pessimism.
KMC : (intake of breath) Again I don't know, I mean that's very much a day by day, week by week thing really. And I can only (intake of breath) think that when the time is right, I'll know. Certainly, at the moment it feels right to be here. But, as I say, things might change and suddenly it'll be right to be at home. It's very, very.. a very difficult one to predict really.
Note repetition, as well as passivity. Note the use of the IR's name at various points in the interview. Regarding hope, it is here where innocent parents assert that they "know" their child is alive, they can "feel it" instinctively. Even parents who have been told their child is deceased will often speak in the present tense due to natural denial. Mothers will speak in the present tense even years after learning of their child's death. It is here, in particular, that we expect to hear not only optimism, but an appeal to the kidnapper to give Madeleine x brand cereal, and this type of medication and this color blanket and so on, followed by the begging for her return. For innocent parents, this is not only the priority of all interviews and statements, it is the dominant theme: what the victim is going through and getting the victim home.JM : And how will you deal with the guilt that will probably stay with you forever of having left Madeleine alone?
The interviewer presumes guilt that the mother had denied.KMC : (Very long pause, tongue clicking, intake of breath) I have actually come to terms a little bit with... with that, Jenny, I mean, you know (intake of breath) .. I know the, errm, I know the situation that we were in that night and uh, I've said all along, I didn't feel I was taking a risk. Errm, yeah, I... I do feel desperately sorry I wasn't with Madeleine at that minute when she was taken.
Note the stuttering pronoun "I" as the tension increases. Since the focus is upon Madeleine, what will she now tell us about Madeleine?Bizarre que PH ne dise rien de cette phrase totalement aberrante : si KMC avait été avec MMC à l'instant où le prédateur s'approchait d'elle, celui-ci soit se serait enfui, soit, plus plausiblement, ne serait pas entré. Mais KMC prononce cette phrase sans se reprendre, sans corriger, c'est donc une phrase qui a un sens pour elle. Or cette phrase n'a de sens que si c'est la faucheuse qui a pris MMC. Ce qui signifierait que le fond de la question, l'origine de la fable de l'enlèvement, est que MMC a été trouvée (accidentellement) morte depuis un certain temps. Sa mort a échappé à ses parents, ils ne peuvent se le pardonner.
Errm, I'd also like to mention I've had so much support from so many people. I've had so many letters and comments sent me.. sent to me from other families, and particularly other mums saying, you know, we have done what you have done a hundred times over, do not blame yourself. Ermm (clicking noise) and certainly, when I'm in my car and have rational moments, Jenny, I know how much I love my children, and I'm, I know how responsible I am, and that's what I have to hang on, hang on to really. (5)
b) elle n'avait pas le sentiment de prendre un risque.
c) des gens lui ont dit de ne pas s'en vouloir parce qu'ils l'avaient fait aussi, des centaines de fois.
Mais évidemment elle est toujours terriblement désolée. D'avoir laissé ses enfants seuls ? Non, elle est désolée de ne pas avoir été là à la minute (emphase) où Madeleine a été prise. Faut-il y voir une déclaration accidentellement pléonastique ? Sans doute pas car ce n'est pas sa seule occurence. Kate MC veut peut-être dire que si elle avait été là à la minute où est arrivé à Madeleine ce qui lui est arrivé, Madeleine (au moins) n'aurait pas été toute seule.
Nothing; it is about alleviating her guilt. This is a specific element within analysis : Innocent people embrace more guilt than deserved; Guilty people seek to reduce guilt and responsibility using the pronoun "we", changing the topic, denying, etc.
This moves the topic away from a kidnapped child waiting to be rescued, thousands of miles away. This is not something an innocent parent will accept. Instead, it is embraced as welcome relief :KMC : (Very long pause, tongue clicking, intake of breath, then a very loud sharp exasperated sigh) I mean, I think it, it's important that the general public are informed really, as the scale of the problem you know. I'd like to think I'm a fairly well-read person and, ermm I was horrified really of, you know, the things that I've learnt about since this happened. Ermm, ....
JM : (Interrupts Kate's answering) What sort of things are you horrified by?
Might Kate be horrified that her daughter is being held by a stranger? This is what is expected in the language of an innocent parent. Note the volume of words dedicated to other children and organizations. Count the words. Then, count the words used to talk about Maddie, herself. Next, count the number of words the parents have used that show concern for what Madeleine is experiencing under abduction. There are none. This is a "welcomed" tangent; that is, by the lengthy sentences and volume of words, there is an increase in emotion that is specifically compared to the lack of words regarding the victim :KMC : The scale of the problem, err. the number of children that are abducted, ermm you know the for example, just I mean I think the problem that we have a little bit in Europe is there's just the statistics aren't all there basically. Ermm but I, I had some statistics passed on to me from PACT, which is err Parents and Abducted Children Together, and in England and Wales alone, and that's just England and Wales, ermm sort of the 2002/2003 year, there were a thousand, ermm attempted stranger abductions (clicking noise). Now, a hundred of those just under 10% of those, ermm, were (does a kind of tongue clicking noise) actual abductions. I don't like to use the word successful even though I think that's probably the word that's used, but a hundred children were taken by strangers. (pause – gathers herself then carries on in a matter of fact manner/way to finish the sentence) And as I say, a thousand were attempted. I mean, I, I think that's huge just for England and Wales. And we don't know what the scale of the problem is in Europe. Ermm.I think it's really important that people, parents, know these kind of things and just to take extra care. I mean, hopefully, what you know.. we'll be able to do things that might change some of these things. That might improve things, make the world a little bit safer for children, but in the meantime I think parents should be aware really and just take extra care.
JM : And what sort of lessons do you think authorities need to learn from the way what happened to you was handled?
The kidnapping of a child from a biological mother is to sever the most powerful of human relationships. In context, Madeleine is "alive" and in the hands of a stranger. Yet we find the mother willing to move quickly away from this most personal of relationships on to "Europe" and the United States. As a mother trying to convince her daughter's captor to release her, and care well for her until, this is not appropriate, nor expected in any circumstance other than long term acceptance of death.KMC : (Long pause, clicking noise, intake of breath) Ermm I think they need to be (exasperated sharp sigh) err, have systems in place across Europe, really, for a, a quick response to a child that's gone missing, and particularly a child that's been abducted. Ermm and it probably needs to be a Europe-wide response. Ermm there's other things as well. I think all Countries in Europe should have a Sex Offenders Register, and probably, ermm CRB checks should be in place throughout Europe. I mean a lot of what I've learned to make compari... comparisons with are obviously, err the information that's come from the States. And, err they do seem to be a little bit ahead, quite a bit ahead rather, ermm with reacting to situations like this.
JM : What's next for you now, Kate? Er I mean, I know you don't want to go into any details of how the current investigation is all forensic discoveries, but immediately now, where do you go from here?
KMC : (Long pause, clicking noise, intake of breath) Well you know, I just hope, Jenny,.... you know, every day I'm hoping that we don't get to the next one. And, I mean it's true when I say we really just try and deal with it one day, ermm and then the next ermm and take it as it comes really. I mean, you know, I don't feel I can go through anything worse than this in my life, you know, so, I feel I can probably handle most things now.
JM : Whenever we see you in a picture, you're carrying Madeleine's toy with you. How important is that you keep that close?
KMC : You know Cuddle Cat. Cuddle Cat's with me now actually (low laugh) at the moment. I mean, Cud.. Cuddle Cat was.. is very special to Madeleine, and, ermm she took it to bed every night and she tended to have it if she was feeling tired or if she was feeling unwell. And because it was special to Madeleine, it's special to me. And, ermm you know, it does provide me with a little bit of comfort.
JM : I was talking to Kate McCann.
Any description of Madeleine in comfort while with her abductors? No. Please note the close proximity here of "tired" (a repeated theme) and now illness (feeling "unwell") in the language of the anesthesiologist mother.
Madeleine à l'approche du 100è jour
BBC News - 09.08.2007
transcrit par Nigel Moore
Voir l'analyse de Peter Hyatt (Statement Analysis) ici.
Les MC avaient une série d'interviews programmés le 9 août, le 100ème jour de disparition. Peut-être pour restaurer leur image, victime de rumeurs latente, ils décidèrent d'accorder cette brève interview à la BBC.
(1) La nouvelle est la découverte de traces de sang dans l'appartement d'où Madeleine a disparu. Cette interview eut lieu le lendemain du jour où Gerald et Kate MC apprirent, par Luis Neves, le chef de la brigade de répression du banditisme, et Guilhermino Encarnação le chef de la PJ pour l'Algarve, que la police portugaise ne croyait pas à leur histoire d'enlèvement.
How has that been for you?
Gerald MC : I think it's an encouraging sign that, errm... you know, they're... they're looking at all possibilities and being very thorough and, errr... it's an excellent example of collaboration between both the British and the Portuguese, errr... police working together, ultimately to try and solve the case of Madeleine and what's happened to her.
Kate MC : We are, I mean, we've got an... we've got an excellent relationship with the Portuguese police and we meet frequently, errm... and the flow of information's been... been great actually. It's been very reassuring. (2)
(2) Voici ce que Kate écrit dans "Madeleine" :
(un journaliste de la BBC les aborde) "Savez-vous ce que l'on dit ? On dit que vous avez tué Madeleine". Je ne suis pas sûre qu'il y ait quelque chose ici-bas qui aurait pu nous offenser davantage. Nous acceptâmes ici et là une interview avec Richard Bilton pour un "pool broadcast". Gerry, contrôlant sa fureur, était calme et très ferme. "Si la police a des indices comme quoi du mal a été fait à Madeleine, alors, comme ses parents, nous avons le droit d'être informés", dit-il lors de l'interview. "Si nous devons revenir à la case zéro et tout recommencer, faisons-le".
(3) Tout prouve (cf. encore "Madeleine") qu'ils ne sont pas informés en premier. Le secret de justice est bien pratique pour suggérer que l'on sait, mais qu'on ne peut pas révéler, alors qu'en fait on est dans l'ignorance.
Il sait au moins depuis la veille quels sont les soupçons.
Of course, errr... the information and the way the investigation's going is... is about thoroughness and ab... and making sure that everyone is as confident as possible that that is the case. Errm... Kate and I strongly believe that Madeleine was alive, errr... when she was taken from the apartment. (4)
(4) Il est étrange de soulever la question de Madeleine vivante quand elle a été "prise", personne n'a jamais imaginé que le ravisseur avait pu tuer Madeleine et enlever son cadavre. Comment pourraient-ils savoir qu'elle n'est pas morte dans l'appartement, le cadavre ayant été emmené par précaution ?
Obviously what we don't know is what happened to her afterwards, who's taken her and what a motive is, and we're desperate to find that out.