The Stockholm Interviews - 23.03.2012
Ces interviews sont le produit poli et efficace des plateaux TV, des mises à l'épreuve et au point au cours des cinq années suivant la disparition de Madeleine. Il y a certains éléments obligés comme la limitation des dégats pour faire bonne figure, l'atténuation de la part de leur responsabilité dans le destin de Madeleine mais aussi le souci de se présenter non seulement comme les victimes innocentes d'offenses cruelles, mais aussi plus blancs que blancs. Une autre constante s'est étoffée avec le temps, encouragée par l'absence totale de réaction de l'intéressée, l'institution judiciaire portugaise : la première à avoir osé exprimer son désaccord avec la théorie de l'enlèvement.
1) TV4PLAY
(spot)
Gerald MC : I don't think you can give up, even when we've been exhausted to the point of saying 'I just want this to end', you go to bed, you get up the next day and you think, 'she's still missing and we still need to find her' and I think most parents understand that.
Kate MC : I mean, I... I feel she's out there. I feel that there's... there's more to come. I just need it to be soon.
(Interview)
Annika Widebeck : How convinced are you that she is still alive then?
GMC : Well, I try to look at it as logically as possible. What we do know is that there's no evidence, at all, to suggest that Madeleine's dead and that means there's a good chance that she's alive, and as a parent I couldn't accept that she was dead without irrefutable evidence that she is, so... (1)
KMC : And I think we do know of so many cases now of children who have been abducted and have, you know, been away for years and sometimes decades. (2)
AW : Like when you're walking in like a Swedish beautiful weather, do you think about now, at this very second, she can be some place and wonder about where?
Kate MC : I mean, I... I feel she's out there. I feel that there's... there's more to come. I just need it to be soon.
(Interview)
Annika Widebeck : How convinced are you that she is still alive then?
GMC : Well, I try to look at it as logically as possible. What we do know is that there's no evidence, at all, to suggest that Madeleine's dead and that means there's a good chance that she's alive, and as a parent I couldn't accept that she was dead without irrefutable evidence that she is, so... (1)
KMC : And I think we do know of so many cases now of children who have been abducted and have, you know, been away for years and sometimes decades. (2)
AW : Like when you're walking in like a Swedish beautiful weather, do you think about now, at this very second, she can be some place and wonder about where?
KMC : I do... It's funny you mention about the weather because it's days like this when I think 'oh, what a lovely day' and that's when I think 'but this would be a lovelier day, if Madeleine was here', errm... (big sigh) I do... I mean... I don't... I try not to speculate too much. I really don't know where she is, all I hope for is that whoever's with her is looking after her and that she's happy, and even that is... is, errm... is sad because, you know, the thought of her being happy with somebody else, when she should be with us, and being happy and, you know, there's no doubt that a child's best place is with their family. (3)
AW : And she's soon turning 9, now right?
KMC : Yeah, she'll be 9 on the 12th of May... yeah.
AW : So you think about how she could look like now?
AW : And she's soon turning 9, now right?
KMC : Yeah, she'll be 9 on the 12th of May... yeah.
AW : So you think about how she could look like now?
GMC : We do, and, errr... you know, Amelie is only 20 months younger than Madeleine, so we're seeing the twins go past the age that Madeleine was taken at. We see her best friend at school and, errm... and you can't help but think what she would look like and clearly the developmental stages of the kids and their reading and writing and doing all the things that you assume that you would have been doing with Madeleine. So these... these aspects are hard, they're very hard.
Annika Widebeck to camera in Swedish
Annika Widebeck to camera in Swedish
GMC : You know, there was a very clear strategy at work that was, errr... trying to convey to the world that, errr... there was strong evidence that Madeleine was dead and we were involved (4) and, in fact, thankfully the prosecutor's final report makes it absolutely clear that, you know, there is no evidence that Madeleine is dead and there's certainly no evidence to link us, errr... to implicate us is any way. So... (5)
KMC : The damage, errm... that was done with all the media reporting with the lies and speculation and fabrication and being made arguido. I think the damage was ongoing. We've had this in other countries, outside the UK and Portugal. Unlike the UK and Portugal, where the story carried on, some... in other countries it stopped, so it stopped at the dramatic, 'oh, the parents are involved' and then, you know, they moved on to another story really, and all I can say to people is please, please read my book. (6)
AW : What's... why is it important for you that people here in Sweden then, errm... understand more what happened?
KMC : I mean, I just think the more people that know Madeleine's missing and the more people that are aware of her plight, the more eyes that are looking, ears that are listening. Just the greater chance we have of finding Madeleine, you know, people travel a lot as well these days, you know, people communicate over the internet, and you just don't know where that key bit of information is going to come from. (7)
GMC : Madeleine could have easily been taken out of Portugal within the first two hours and that's the problem. (8) We have no idea where she is, we don't know who's taken her and we don't know why, so unfortunately for us we want as much awareness as possible that Madeleine's missing and obviously with her looks she could (laughs) blend into Scandanavia fairly easily.
AW : But it's... it's difficult because you... you have to still keep on playing with the media that did so much bad to you.
KMC : It is... I mean, it's... I mean, it's hard but we still do need the media to help find Madeleine and that... I hope that the media will... will stop and think at some point and take responsibility really because they're incredibly powerful and they can do so, so much good. I mean we're talking about children, you know, and trying to find a child who's been stolen from their family and, you know, use your power to good use, you know. That's all I can say. (9)
Annika Widebeck voice over in Swedish, images from September 2007
AW : What's... why is it important for you that people here in Sweden then, errm... understand more what happened?
KMC : I mean, I just think the more people that know Madeleine's missing and the more people that are aware of her plight, the more eyes that are looking, ears that are listening. Just the greater chance we have of finding Madeleine, you know, people travel a lot as well these days, you know, people communicate over the internet, and you just don't know where that key bit of information is going to come from. (7)
GMC : Madeleine could have easily been taken out of Portugal within the first two hours and that's the problem. (8) We have no idea where she is, we don't know who's taken her and we don't know why, so unfortunately for us we want as much awareness as possible that Madeleine's missing and obviously with her looks she could (laughs) blend into Scandanavia fairly easily.
AW : But it's... it's difficult because you... you have to still keep on playing with the media that did so much bad to you.
KMC : It is... I mean, it's... I mean, it's hard but we still do need the media to help find Madeleine and that... I hope that the media will... will stop and think at some point and take responsibility really because they're incredibly powerful and they can do so, so much good. I mean we're talking about children, you know, and trying to find a child who's been stolen from their family and, you know, use your power to good use, you know. That's all I can say. (9)
Annika Widebeck voice over in Swedish, images from September 2007
KMC : I mean, it was awful. I mean, not only were we going through the pain and the anxiety of not having Madeleine with us and not knowing where she was, suddenly all these stories were appearing and for us the biggest injustice in all that was the effect that would have on the search for Madeleine because if people believed what was getting written or getting given to the media, errm... suggesting that she was dead then they wouldn't look at her or they wouldn't come forward with information. (10)
GMC : You can understand that when people are fed information that parents are suspects of involvement people will want to believe that because they'll want to think that this will not happen to them and they'll want to think that there actually... there isn't actually an abductor out there and their children are not at risk but what happens on the ground is very different. We know now that people in Portugal, and elsewhere, people keep their children much closer to them, and... (11)
AW : Closer than... than in the UK?
GMC : I think certainly there's been remarkably few child abductions since Madeleine was taken and I think people are more aware, and one of the things we've tried to do throughout the last 5 years is not look back because you can't change what's happened. (12) We're more interested in what can still be done and... and at this minute, and following Kate's book launched last year, the Metropolitan Police are now reviewing the case and working with a... a new team in Portugal and that's much much more important about than discredited former officers.
AW : Tell me how far away was this restaurant?
GMC : I mean it was incredibly close. I think if you had to draw a straight line from the restaurant to the apartment it was 50 metres. It never entered our head for a second that somebody would steal your child, it was the furthest thing from your mind, so...(13)
AW : And still you hear this all the time why did you leave them... right?
KMC : I mean, there's only so many times we can answer the question and, you know, I've had to.. you know, I've persecuted myself with that, you know, obviously... (sigh) I can't change it, I know how much we love Madeleine, you know, and at the end of the day the person who has taken Madeleine is the one who has committed the crime and, errr... and that's who we need to find. (14)
AW : So how do you see the future - will you ever put some sort of end of this?
KMC : I think until we find Madeleine, find out what's happened, then that won't be possible and I... I don't think any parent could, you know, it's not something that you can switch off from, it's not... it's your child, you know, that bond is too strong. You don't know if it's because you're the mother that you... you just want it so badly, that's why it feels but I know there's nothing telling me to stop, you know, and I... as I say I can talk to her like she's there, and she's coming back, and I just want it to be soon.
(1)
Il n'est absolument pas logique d'inférer de l'absence d'indice de mort
qu'une très petite fille disparue sans laisser de trace soit vivante.
On ne sait même pas si elle est sortie vivante de l'appartement où elle
était la dernière fois qu'on (son père) l'a vue vivante. Gerald MC ici, comme
ailleurs, affirme que, comme sa proposition (Madeleine est vivante)
n'est pas réfutée par les faits, il n'est pas tolérable d'en douter, ce qui, si la
situation n'était pas pathétique, le ferait passer pour un sophiste.
C'est l'histoire de la Théière de Russell, le Dragon dans le garage, le Monstre en spaghetti volant ou la Licorne invisible et rose.
GMC : You can understand that when people are fed information that parents are suspects of involvement people will want to believe that because they'll want to think that this will not happen to them and they'll want to think that there actually... there isn't actually an abductor out there and their children are not at risk but what happens on the ground is very different. We know now that people in Portugal, and elsewhere, people keep their children much closer to them, and... (11)
AW : Closer than... than in the UK?
GMC : I think certainly there's been remarkably few child abductions since Madeleine was taken and I think people are more aware, and one of the things we've tried to do throughout the last 5 years is not look back because you can't change what's happened. (12) We're more interested in what can still be done and... and at this minute, and following Kate's book launched last year, the Metropolitan Police are now reviewing the case and working with a... a new team in Portugal and that's much much more important about than discredited former officers.
AW : Tell me how far away was this restaurant?
GMC : I mean it was incredibly close. I think if you had to draw a straight line from the restaurant to the apartment it was 50 metres. It never entered our head for a second that somebody would steal your child, it was the furthest thing from your mind, so...(13)
AW : And still you hear this all the time why did you leave them... right?
KMC : I mean, there's only so many times we can answer the question and, you know, I've had to.. you know, I've persecuted myself with that, you know, obviously... (sigh) I can't change it, I know how much we love Madeleine, you know, and at the end of the day the person who has taken Madeleine is the one who has committed the crime and, errr... and that's who we need to find. (14)
AW : So how do you see the future - will you ever put some sort of end of this?
KMC : I think until we find Madeleine, find out what's happened, then that won't be possible and I... I don't think any parent could, you know, it's not something that you can switch off from, it's not... it's your child, you know, that bond is too strong. You don't know if it's because you're the mother that you... you just want it so badly, that's why it feels but I know there's nothing telling me to stop, you know, and I... as I say I can talk to her like she's there, and she's coming back, and I just want it to be soon.
(2)
Tant de cas" est quelque peu outrancier : on les compte sur les doigts
d'une main, Natascha Kampusch, Jaycee Dugard et ???, toutes
pré-adolescentes et adolescentes.
(3)
Kate MC paradoxalement espère que Madeleine est heureuse là où elle se trouve, mais
s'attriste à l'idée que sa fille soit heureuse loin des siens.
(4) Gerald MC évoque ici sans doute la conclusion de l'équipe de la PJ sous la coordination de Gonçalo Amaral, mais pourquoi devrait-elle être une stratégie ? Quel intérêt aurait eu la PJ à faire croire que Madeleine était morte ?
(5) Gerald MC ne semble pas avoir lu attentivement l'ordonnane de classement du procureur de
la république, car ce qu'il affirme n'y est pas, à commencer par la clarté. Le seul élément clair dans ce rapport, c'est que rien ne
l'est, précisément. Le crime dont a été victime Madeleine MC est
indéterminé : homicide volontaire ou involontaire, recel de cadavre,
enlèvement, on ne sait. Comme le crime est indéterminé, il n'est pas possible d'accuser qui que ce soit. Le procureur enfin plaint les MC d'avoir perdu la chance de prouver leur innocence du fait du refus de leurs compagnons de voyage de participer à la reconstitution requise par le parquet (les MC ne pouvaient se dérober, étant arguidos).
(6)
Si ce qui compte le plus pour Kate MC est que l'on lise son livre, et
non de toucher des royalties, pourquoi ne pas inciter, par exemple, en
le mettant en ligne avec accès gratuit ?
(7)
Il n'est pas raisonnable de sinon penser du moins dire que la petite
fille la plus recherchée de la planète a des chances de se trouver dans
un bus, un jardin public ou une épicerie. Pourquoi la Suède ? Ces interviews sont-elles rétribuées par une somme versée à Madeleine's Fund ou non ?
(8) Tannerman et Smithman étaient à pied.
(9)
La question était intéressante, la réponse maladroite, mais on comprend
que le "bon" des médias l'emporte sur le "mauvais", c'est pourquoi les
MC n'ont pas renoncé au cirque médiatique. Comparer au discours de Gerald MC devant la commission "médias" de la Chambre des Communes, le 10 mars 2009.
(10) C'est
un leit-motiv des MC, sans fondement puisque huit ans plus tard deux
forces de police enquêtent encore et puisque, affaire classée ou non, la
PJ ne cesse de recueillir et d'examiner les informations qui lui
parviennent, ce qui du reste retiendrait un ravisseur de laisser sa
proie évoluer en plein jour.
(11) Gerald MC insinue que le fait que les parents soient soupçonnés convient tout à fait aux gens, ils veulent le croire parce que cela les rassure : s'il n'y a pas de ravisseur, alors leurs enfants ne sont pas en danger. D'un côté il n'est pas faux qu'il est plus rassurant pour les touristes de Praia da Luz de penser qu'on n'y enlève pas les enfants de leur lit, bien que Gerald MC tienne un discours universalisant, qui réduit à un individu l'ensemble des ravisseurs avérés et potentiels de la planète. Mais d'un autre côté les MC, qui ont incarné un couple modèle plongé dans un drame odieux, finalement auraient monté l'enlèvement (abracadabrant certes) de toutes pièces ? Voilà qui inquiète infiniment plus sur la nature humaine qu'un ravisseur hypothétique, surgi du néant et retourné au néant. C'est ainsi que le rédacteur en chef de Expresso, Henrique Monteiro, déclara que, si la preuve était faite que les MC étaient coupables, il perdrait complètement confiance en la condition humaine. Il a été épargné, mais il n'en est pas sorti indemme, il a perdu confiance en l'institution judiciaire ou tout du moins dans ses méthodes d'investigation.
(12) Gerald MC insinue-t-il que, grâce à l'enlèvement de Madeleine, les gens font plus attention à leurs enfants qui, du coup, sont moins enlevés ? Aucune statistique ne confirme ces propos, quel que soit le pays de référence.
(13) Mais ils fermaient les portes pendant la journée, quand il n'y avait que leurs bagages à l'intérieur. Ils ne croyaient quand même pas que la présence d'enfants endormis dissuaderait d'éventuels cambrioleurs, que ces enfants protégeaient mieux leurs biens qu'une clef tournée dans la serrure. Le nombre de mètres entre le restaurant et l'appartement ne dit rien sur le parcours lui-même qui impliquait une trentaine de mètres dans la rue, notamment, ni sur le fait que la chambre des enfants était hors de portée de vue et d'oreille.
(14) Voilà comment un ravisseur hypothétique devient un criminel réel.
(11) Gerald MC insinue que le fait que les parents soient soupçonnés convient tout à fait aux gens, ils veulent le croire parce que cela les rassure : s'il n'y a pas de ravisseur, alors leurs enfants ne sont pas en danger. D'un côté il n'est pas faux qu'il est plus rassurant pour les touristes de Praia da Luz de penser qu'on n'y enlève pas les enfants de leur lit, bien que Gerald MC tienne un discours universalisant, qui réduit à un individu l'ensemble des ravisseurs avérés et potentiels de la planète. Mais d'un autre côté les MC, qui ont incarné un couple modèle plongé dans un drame odieux, finalement auraient monté l'enlèvement (abracadabrant certes) de toutes pièces ? Voilà qui inquiète infiniment plus sur la nature humaine qu'un ravisseur hypothétique, surgi du néant et retourné au néant. C'est ainsi que le rédacteur en chef de Expresso, Henrique Monteiro, déclara que, si la preuve était faite que les MC étaient coupables, il perdrait complètement confiance en la condition humaine. Il a été épargné, mais il n'en est pas sorti indemme, il a perdu confiance en l'institution judiciaire ou tout du moins dans ses méthodes d'investigation.
(12) Gerald MC insinue-t-il que, grâce à l'enlèvement de Madeleine, les gens font plus attention à leurs enfants qui, du coup, sont moins enlevés ? Aucune statistique ne confirme ces propos, quel que soit le pays de référence.
(13) Mais ils fermaient les portes pendant la journée, quand il n'y avait que leurs bagages à l'intérieur. Ils ne croyaient quand même pas que la présence d'enfants endormis dissuaderait d'éventuels cambrioleurs, que ces enfants protégeaient mieux leurs biens qu'une clef tournée dans la serrure. Le nombre de mètres entre le restaurant et l'appartement ne dit rien sur le parcours lui-même qui impliquait une trentaine de mètres dans la rue, notamment, ni sur le fait que la chambre des enfants était hors de portée de vue et d'oreille.
(14) Voilà comment un ravisseur hypothétique devient un criminel réel.
2. TV SVT (Skavlan Talk Show)
(spot)
Gerald MC : Please, if you have Madeleine, let her come home to her mummy, daddy, brother and sister.
Kate MC : I just wanna say 'thank you'. Please continue to pray for Madeleine, she's lovely.
GMC : ...and we continue to hope for the best possible outcome from this for us... and for Madeleine.
Gerald MC : Please, if you have Madeleine, let her come home to her mummy, daddy, brother and sister.
Kate MC : I just wanna say 'thank you'. Please continue to pray for Madeleine, she's lovely.
GMC : ...and we continue to hope for the best possible outcome from this for us... and for Madeleine.
(studio)
Fredrik Skavlan : Errr... Kate and Gerry McCann please welcome to... welcome to Stockholm.
GMC : Thank you.
KMC : Thank you.
FS : Errr... It's... it's been... it's been almost five years, errr... since, since, errm... Madeleine disappeared and... and now you Kate are reliving the whole thing by writing a book about what happened. Errm... Why are you doing that?
KMC : Well I actually started to keep a diary back in May 2007. I was advised to do it actually, and at the time I felt it would be important for Madeleine really, so that when we found her we'd be able to fill in the gaps, errm... in her life, and then I also thought it would be good for Sean and Amelie as well, so that they would have an account really, of the truth of everything that happened.
FS : Your... your twins?
KMC : That's right, yeah.
FS : Errm... If we could start by going back, errm... to... to May, errr... 3rd 2007. What's your strongest memories of Madeleine from that day?
GMC : I think the strongest memory I have is of really, the photograph that was the last photograph we have of her and, errr... you know, we'd had a lovely holiday. (1) Madeleine was having a great time and just after lunch we went over to the pool area and, errr... she was sitting there paddling in the pool and I was sitting next to her and she turned round and she's just beaming. And then the... the last time I saw her, which was probably minutes before she was taken, when she was lying asleep, and it's terrible how... I've said this a few times but I had one of those poignant moments as a parent where... I went into her room, and the door was open, and I... I just paused for a second and I looked, and she was sound asleep, and I thought how beautiful she was. The twins were asleep in the... in their cots and I thought how lucky we were. And within, you know, minutes that was shattered! (2)
FS : What happened was that you went... you went to eat with the other parents that you were on vacation with?
KMC : That's right.
FS : Errm... This was not far from the apartment?
KMC : It's about 50 metres as the clow... crow flies but about 70 metres on foot.
FS : Yes, and... and as you sat there in this restaurant you... you went back and forth on shift to... to check on the children, is that right?
KMC : That's right.
FS : And... and what... what happened when the last time you went to check?
KMC : Well it was 10 o'clock when I went to check on Madeleine and, errm... I walked into the sitting room of the apartment and I noticed that the children's bedroom door was open further than we'd left it. We always close it quite far over but just enough so some light gets in and it was quite open. And it was our friend Matt who had checked on the children at half past nine when he was checking on his daughter next door, and I thought to myself well maybe... maybe Matt's left the door open when he's checked on them. (3) So I walked over to the bedroom door and I was about to close it to again, and as I did that, it kind of slammed shut, and I thought, 'oh, there must be a draught' and I checked the door behind me and I hadn't left that open. And then I opened the door again, of the children's bedroom, just to leave it open a little bit and that's when I really looked in. (4) And I... I couldn't quite make out Madeleine in her bed and I just looked and looked and, errm... it was obviously quite dark, (5) and it must be a parental thing where you don't switch a light on in case... you're worried about waking them but then I realised she wasn't actually there and I thought, well she must have wandered through to our bedroom and maybe that would explain why the door was open. So I went into... to our bedroom and she wasn't there (6) and that was the first time really that the panic hit and I just ran back into her bedroom, and literally at that point, errm... the curtains which were closed just kind of flew open and that was when I noticed that the window was open as far as it could go and the shutters outside had been raised all the way up. And I just knew straight away that someone had, errm... taken her, so... (7)
FS : So... so this... this was your first thought?
KMC : Yeah, absolutely, there's no way a... a young child could have got out. (8)
FS : This... this decision of not eating in the apartment it has been a lot of discussions about that and not... not staying in the apartment, to go to eat with the other parents - as you did every night.
GMC : We felt incredibly safe and we were in a very quiet holiday resort. We were with a group of friends, we hardly saw anyone in the evening and it... it was so close that it... it didn't feel very different to eating outside in your garden, with the kids upstairs in the bedroom, and it... literally we were only going back, errm... to check that no one had woken up and of course at the time someone stealing your child was the furthest thing from our minds and, errm... it... it... (9)
KMC : That's right.
FS : Errm... This was not far from the apartment?
KMC : It's about 50 metres as the clow... crow flies but about 70 metres on foot.
FS : Yes, and... and as you sat there in this restaurant you... you went back and forth on shift to... to check on the children, is that right?
KMC : That's right.
FS : And... and what... what happened when the last time you went to check?
KMC : Well it was 10 o'clock when I went to check on Madeleine and, errm... I walked into the sitting room of the apartment and I noticed that the children's bedroom door was open further than we'd left it. We always close it quite far over but just enough so some light gets in and it was quite open. And it was our friend Matt who had checked on the children at half past nine when he was checking on his daughter next door, and I thought to myself well maybe... maybe Matt's left the door open when he's checked on them. (3) So I walked over to the bedroom door and I was about to close it to again, and as I did that, it kind of slammed shut, and I thought, 'oh, there must be a draught' and I checked the door behind me and I hadn't left that open. And then I opened the door again, of the children's bedroom, just to leave it open a little bit and that's when I really looked in. (4) And I... I couldn't quite make out Madeleine in her bed and I just looked and looked and, errm... it was obviously quite dark, (5) and it must be a parental thing where you don't switch a light on in case... you're worried about waking them but then I realised she wasn't actually there and I thought, well she must have wandered through to our bedroom and maybe that would explain why the door was open. So I went into... to our bedroom and she wasn't there (6) and that was the first time really that the panic hit and I just ran back into her bedroom, and literally at that point, errm... the curtains which were closed just kind of flew open and that was when I noticed that the window was open as far as it could go and the shutters outside had been raised all the way up. And I just knew straight away that someone had, errm... taken her, so... (7)
FS : So... so this... this was your first thought?
KMC : Yeah, absolutely, there's no way a... a young child could have got out. (8)
FS : This... this decision of not eating in the apartment it has been a lot of discussions about that and not... not staying in the apartment, to go to eat with the other parents - as you did every night.
GMC : We felt incredibly safe and we were in a very quiet holiday resort. We were with a group of friends, we hardly saw anyone in the evening and it... it was so close that it... it didn't feel very different to eating outside in your garden, with the kids upstairs in the bedroom, and it... literally we were only going back, errm... to check that no one had woken up and of course at the time someone stealing your child was the furthest thing from our minds and, errm... it... it... (9)
FS : This was really not something you had thought twice about?
GMC : Yeah, no, it was, it just felt, errm...
KMC : I think if we'd had to think about it or even say to each other 'do you think that's okay?' then it wouldn't have happened. But it just felt like a very natural thing; we'll eat at the restaurant on the complex, errm... (10)
GMC : I think... I think the hardest thing with this is, you know with hindsight we made a mistake, errm... it was a collective mistake (11) but unfortunately we can't change that and, errm... and whatever anyone may think about our decision making that night Madeleine's completely innocent and, you know, she's been taken and, errm... and it's hard for us because, you know, no one could feel more guilty than we did to... to... to think that your behaviour gave someone an opportunity, a risky opportunity, but one that they took and, you know, we persecuted ourselves for that, but you've got to look forward, you can't go back, we can't change that unfortunately, and errm... and what we've tried to do is... is always to look forward. (12)
FS : Were you like... were you the worrying kind of parents. I mean, there are...?
GMC : I'll answer that! I would say: I wasn't but Kate was! I would have said that Kate was a bit over protective whereas, you know, I grew up in a big family; the youngest of five, and you feel, oh, you know, indestructible, but Kate was much... as an only child maybe, I don't know, but definitely much more protective, errr... of the children than... than me.
FS : There... there were, errr... you... you came in contact very... very quickly with the Portuguese police...
GMC : Sure... (13)
FS : Errr... How was that experience?
GMC : We were expecting a Metropolitan type response and I remember... (14) I remember saying to the officers, 'where are the helicopters ? I want helicopters with heat seeking equipment.' And, you know, the officer kind of laughed at us and said, you know, 'this isn't...', you know, 'we don’t have a Royal Navy' and... and this thing... and... and you just... and I'm sure every single parent can understand this because everyone has lost a child momentarily and the terror and how frightening it is, be it in a supermarket or a playground or a park, and you just want everything done and you want... you want the world to stop and... and scream, and... and the response, you know, was slow. (15) Errm... And that... that's been one of the hardest things for us, because, you know, Madeleine could have been moved very easily and the Spanish border's only about 90 minutes away and obviously you are on the Mediterranean, and one of the aspects of why we are campaigning internationally, errr... is because she could have been taken anywhere. (16)
FS : What happened was that as time went by you didn't really trust the Portuguese police and they didn't trust you?
GMC : We were there for three/three and a half months, we felt we had been completely eliminated from the enquiry, we'd been interviewed... the circumstances, you know, errm... and then, you know, for whatever reason, and possibly pressure, and a desire for this case to go away, it was portrayed in the media that, errr... there was very strong evidence that Madeleine was dead. People see 'DNA' and other things, and that we were responsible for hiding her body and... (17)
FS : There were rumours about DNA in the car... in the car that you hired?
GMC : And we want to be absolutely clear about these things, you know, there are two aspects: we didn't hire that car for 3 and half weeks until after Madeleine was taken, and the second aspect is there's no DNA match. Errr... You know, when you see the files there's a mixed sample of DNA that comes from 5 people and obviously some of it matched Madeleine's. But of course, all of our DNA matches Madeleine's and... and to be fair, you know, it was incredibly frustrating from the time we were arguidos, through to the... the file being closed the following July but the... the Prosecutor's final report was very clear actually, and unequivocal, that, you know, there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead. And there was no evidence that we were involved but certain people have chosen to ignore that information. (18)
FS : Which one of these media speculations was... was most shocking, do you think? Was most hurtful?
KMC : I mean, there were loads, I mean, I guess the worst thing is if they say she's dead - and there's no evidence - because if she's dead there's no search, errm... (laughs)
GMC : I think the other thing, just to go back to that, Fredrik, is that we had an interview with the police, which Kate details in her book - an unofficial interview - and, errm... basically two of the senior officers were saying to us, errm... 'tell us what happened, we know what happened.' And... and I was in tears, saying, 'do you have evidence that Madeleine is dead? Because if you do, as her parents, we need to know.' And they were saying, 'it's coming, it's coming'. And that, you know, the pressure that was put on us to confess to a crime of... of hiding your own daughter's body and to... to say that you were going to pursue us for murder. And... and it's not unique to Portugal, this happens with police the world over, it's happened to many different people, it's happened to other parents in similar situations to us. (19)
FS : How is your daily life, it's been five years, how is your daily life affected by this now... or do you have a daily life?
KMC : Yeah, I think we've reached a new normality I guess. You know, our life will never be what it was, you know, it's never gonna be truly normal again because of what's happened but we've got to a place where we are obviously functioning, I mean Gerry works full time. I haven't returned to medical practice but I've worked on the campaign and investigation. Six months of my life was spent going through the Portuguese police files, nine months was spent writing a book, and of course we've got two other children. We've got Sean and Amelie, and it's, you know, it's actually quite a luxury, but a nice luxury, to be able to take them to school and be there for when they come home, so...
GMC : It's probably important to emphasise, you know, we do spend obviously a lot of our spare time, errr... focused on it and the last year we've slept a lot better knowing that the review is taking place. But if you had a casual observer looking at us as a family they would see a family of four. They'd see a happy family of four, and they wouldn't really see... they wouldn't suspect that we'd been, errm... you know, suffered a great trauma, errm... but for Kate and I... Sean and Amelie are as happy as any 7 year olds that we know and for Kate and I, we get enjoyment from life, we do, we do, do that, but until Madeleine's back with us there's... there's always going to be a void and that there's a limit, you know, whereas before you could be... you could have unbridled joy, anything now, is always... there's always a tinge and it's often the family things because Madeleine is not there with us.
FS : How... how has it affected your relationship?
KMC : Well we're very lucky in that our relationship was very good, very strong, before this happened and I'm not sure we'd have survived if that wasn't the case I mean I don't think there could be anything more traumatic than what's happened to us plus all the additional stuff on top of that.
FS : You... you said you've written the book for the twins, how much do they know?
KMC : Probably as much as we do to be honest now, errm...
GMC : Virtually, yeah!
KMC : We did take advice from a child psychologist and he said to be as honest and as open with them but let them take the lead so if they ask you a question you respond as... as fully as you can and that's exactly what we've done. So we've got to the point now where they understand that a man has taken Madeleine. They... they view it like burgalry [sic]; she's been stolen and you shouldn't take something that doesn't belong to you but they understand, you know, there's lots of people helping us. They understand why we are in Sweden today, the purpose of that is to ask for more help really, errm... (20)
FS : Can... can they really remember?
KMC : Well obviously they were very young, but they have re-counted things that happened prior to May 2007, which has kind of thrown me a little bit. (21) Obviously they have been surrounded by Madeleine ever since. There's pictures all around the house and Madeleine's bedroom is still there, they've obviously seen things on the television and they know that my job really has changed from being a doctor to looking for Madeleine, errm...
GMC : And I think it's important to say that they still see Madeleine as a big part of their life, and as parents that's incredibly comforting and they'll say things like 'We're going to get on an aeroplane and we're going to look for that man, and when we find him we're going to... ' and I'll say 'we'll give him to police', but they even talk about that. But I think, you know, if we don't find Madeleine in the next... period we will face more difficult times as they get older and they're on internet and they start seeing some of the vile material which is there. (22)
FS : In your book you... you... you mention that you have been perceived as, errr... as cold in a way?
KMC : Well someone's always got an opinion and I think we've learned how judgemental people can be and, I mean, I think its maybe part of human nature, we are all quick to judge from a position of ignorance. (23)
FS : Is there a right way of grieving and a wrong way of grieving?
KMC : Well exactly, I mean how should a mother or father grieve when their child is abducted and...
GMC : I think the other thing people probably don't understand is that when we've done media, in particular in the early days you had to really psyche yourself up to go on there and deliver the message, you know, we set objectives...(24)
FS : Were you advised on how to behave?
GMC : We... I mean the very initial things we weren't, but when we did the first sort of direct appeal to the abductor, errm... Kate... we were... and I was told that Kate should speak as the mother, female voice and that she should not show any emotion in case that gave the abductor some sort of kick so that particular appeal, but I think as much as anything, you know, Kate had probably cried 16 hours a day for 4 days, by time we did that, and we were just drained, you cannot physically cry 24 hours a day. I mean it's impossible. (25)
KMC : The day we did the appeal to the abductor, which was on the Monday, and I spoke to Alan (Pike) the counsellor and I said, 'I feel really numb' and I felt really bad that I felt numb, I just... and he said 'Kate you can't cry for 24 hours a day, you know, this is... this is natural' but... (lets out sigh) it's hard, I mean if you laugh people will say 'how can they laugh when their child has been abducted'; if you don't laugh you'll either get called 'cold' or you're 'on the edge of a nervous breakdown' or... and it's just hard, you've just got to be who you are, you know. (26) Les interventions des MC, dès le 4 mai, devant les caméras eurent lieu contre les préconisations de la police auraient compromis l'enquête si la piste "ravisseur" avait été confirmée.
FS : Do you have days that when you can forget, when you can sort of not think about it?
KMC : No, I don't think there's any day when Madeleine isn't on my mind, you know, she is always there but... For 18 months/2 years I never thought I'd enjoy myself again, I never thought I'd allow myself to enjoy anything again, errm... and with time you adapt and I... I realised that actually it is okay to do that and it is important to do that, you need to get rest, you need to enjoy your life, and you have to be well and happy, you know, for each other, for Madeleine when she gets home, for Sean and Amelie, and... and thankfully, you know, we are in a position now where we get a lot of enjoyment out of things, Sean and Amelie in particular.
FS : Today, almost 5 years later, what do you believe happened to Madeleine?
KMC : Well, I mean, my view hasn't changed, you know, since the 4th of May really, and that is, that a man took Madeleine. And that man was the person who our friend Jane Tanner saw carrying a child away from the area of the apartment. And sadly I don't really know anything else since. (27)
FS : How long do you think you can find the strength to continue this search?
KMC : Well, as long as it takes. I don't think any parent, errm... would ever be able to give up on their child and even the weeks where we are absolutely shattered, errm... or there's another injustice that comes your way, you get up the next morning and think, 'right let's go again' because, you know, Madeleine is part of our family. We all need her back and she needs to be with us... just need to keep going.
GMC : I mean, there are times when you just think 'I cannot do this, any more', errm... 'it's too much' and particularly, you know, the attention that's come through the media, but, as Kate says, you know, that bond with us, and with Madeleine, and for Sean and Amelie, and even if you wanted to I don't think we could stop.
FS : Please know that our thoughts are with you, errr... thank you so much for coming here to Stockholm and telling us about her, reminding us about Madeleine is still missing. Thank you, so much.
 |
| S. Dali - Visage paranoïaque (1935) |
(1) La photographie s'est substituée au souvenir de Madeleine.
(2) Comme dans la littérature de gare ou un film mélodramatique, au moment où le héros se sent au faîte du bonheur, le malheur le prend au dépourvu. Selon Kate MC, Madeleine aurait déclaré que c'était le plus beau jour du voyage.
(3) Pourquoi "peut-être", pourquoi pas "sûrement", quelle autre possibilité y avait-il puisque Madeleine ne quittait jamais son lit pour aller dans celui de ses parents avant minuit ?
(4) Sans cette porte qui claque elle n'aurait pas regardé dans la chambre, tout comme Gerald n'a eu sa dernière vision de Madeleine que parce que la porte était trop ouverte.
(5) Est-ce si évident ? Quand Gerald, puis Matthew avaient fait leur ronde, ils n'avaient pas eu besoin d'allumer..
(6) Il ne semble pas que Kate ait allumé la lumière. En tout cas Gerald qui se faisait fort de surveiller l'appartement, n'a rien vu.
(7) Il faut un sacré coup de vent pour faire voler des rideaux qui sont coincés derrière un lit et une chaise, en l'absence d'appel d'air opposé.
(8) Étant donné cette narration, chacun en conviendra.
(9) Un drôle de jardin, traversé de part en part par deux hauts murs, une rue, etc.
(10) L'immeuble G5, aux patios clos de murs du côté sud, n'appartenait pas au complexe, lui-même entouré d'un très haut mur et accessible par un petit bâtiment, la réception.
(11) Limitation des dégâts : les compagnons de voyage ont fait la même chose, mais verrouillaient soigneusement toutes les portes.
(12) C'est un leit-motiv majeur des narrations des MC. Leur sens de la sécurité a été trompé et ils ont fait une erreur, ils ne sont pas les seuls, ils en sont plus marris que quiconque, ils ne peuvent revenir en arrière, donc ils vont de l'avant. On les admirerait de réussir à le faire, s'ils ne s'en prenaient à toute narration différant de la leur, avec l'argument massue du manque de fondement, même si la leur est aussi sans fondement, une pure théorie érigérée en vérité par le simple fait qu'elle émane de parents aimants.
(13) L'intervieweur n'a pas bien posé sa question. Il devait savoir que non seulement les MC n'ont pas pris l'initiative d'entrer en contact avec la police (bien qu'étant équippés de téléphones cellulaires et bien que persuadés à 100% que leur fille avait été enlevée), mais que presque 45' se sont écoulées avant le premier appel, par le garde nocturne du complexe, à la police.
(14) Quelle sorte de police débarque à la pointe de la Cornouaille, par exemple à Sennen Cove, au milieu de la nuit ?
(15) On se demande combien de parents ayant eu un enfant égaré pendant quelques minutes dans un parc ont eu l'idée d'exiger immédiatement des hélicoptères équippés de caméras thermiques. Mais c'est une bonne idée (inaugurée quelques années plus tôt) d'aider le téléspectateur à imaginer ce qu'ils ont ressenti en découvrant le lit vide en évoquant un incident que tout parent a vécu au moins une fois.
(16) Gerald MC n'est ni le premier ni le dernier à confondre l'Océan Atlantique avec la Méditerranée. Mais que n'ont-ils immédiatement appelé le numéro d'urgence européen (ou le numéro d'urgence britannique qui aurait basculé automatiquement sur le Portugal) s'il pensait que l'enfant, à peine enlevée, avait déjà franchi un poste frontière qui du reste ne fonctionne plus puisqu'on est dans l'espace Schengen. Y a-t-il un sentiment insulaire qui se manifeste ici ?(17) Gerald est en train d'insinuer que Madeleine a été décrétée morte parce que les Portugais n'en pouvaient plus !
(18) Certains ignorent cette information tout simplement parce qu'elle est incomplète. La PJ n'a pas réussi à découvrir de quel crime Madeleine MC avait été victime, mais a dressé la liste des crimes possibles où l'enlèvement n'est qu'une possibilité parmi plusieurs autres, puisqu'il n'y a aucun élément probant à l'appui et qu'aucune trace d'effraction n'a été relevée.
(19) C'est la seule fois où Gerald fait référence à cet interrogatoire informel dans un interview. Nous ne saurions rien de son existence si Kate MC ne l'avait rapporté dans "Madeleine", car il n'y en a pas trace dans les PJFiles. Son aspect informel se devait à la potentialité incriminatoire des réponses aux questions que Luis Neves et Guilhermino Encarnação posèrent, séparément, aux MC.
(20) Au mieux ils font confiance, car pourquoi la Suède ?
(21) Les psychologues disent que c'est impossible, ils n'avaient qu'un peu plus de deux ans. Ce dont ils peuvent se souvenir, c'est d'événements antérieurs qui leur ont été racontés, ils se souviennent de ce qu'on leur a décrit. Pourquoi Kate a-t-elle été bouleversée de découvrir que les jumeaux se souvenaient de choses antérieures à la disparition ? Espérait-elle qu'ils jetteraient quelque lumière sur la personne qui avait emmené Madeleine la nuit du 3 mai ? Ou tout simplement était-elle agacée que le journaliste sous-entende que les jumeaux ne pouvaient avoir un souvenir direct de leur soeur ?
(22) C'est la première fois que les MC parlent aussi précisément de ces découvertes qu'ils n'auront aucun moyen d'éviter.
(23) Très juste.
(24) Bien sûr, si on ne veut pas être la vache à lait des médias, il faut les instrumentaliser.
(25) Alex Woolfall, expert en gestion de crise (Bell Pottinger Group) engagé par Mark Warner, était à PDL dès le 4 mai. C'est lui qui forma les MC à la médiaïté.
(26) Les interventions des MC, dès le 4 mai, devant les caméras eurent lieu contre les préconisations de la police auraient compromis l'enquête si la piste "ravisseur" avait été confirmée.
(27) Cette théorie-là résista au démantèlement opéré par DCI Redwood, en octobre 2013, lorsqu'il déclara que Tannerman était un père ramenant son enfant de la crèche, peut-être parce que cette narration était devenue si familière aux MC qu'elle était associée pour toujours à la perte de leur enfant.
“Well obviously they were very young, but they have re-counted things that happened prior to May 2007, which has kind of thrown me a little bit.”
by A.Miller
The interview in Stockholm has perhaps provided us with the most polished and proficient performance by the McCann couple to date, polished in both their appearance and almost off pat delivery of their tale of abduction.
A McCann ‘outing’ would never be complete though, without a dash of damage-limitation always included for good measure, not solely to serve the purpose of diminishing their part in whatever became of Madeleine - though that too, but rather another desperate attempt, an exercise in painting a pretty picture portraying themselves as not only the injured party but of being whiter than white. Sad faced Kate -I’m damned if I smile, damned if I don’t- McCann, a keen dramatist, coupled with the discomfiting smirk of Gerry -where is the child- McCann never fail their audience, their self-centred conduct always makes for cringe worthy viewing.
An interview with the McCann’s coupled without the main ingredient - the now customary sprinkle of ‘put downs’ directed at the Portuguese Police and anyone else in fact, who may disagree with their abduction theory – is something too that we have come to expect.
The upside is perhaps that each time Kate McCann makes an appearance, deliberately or otherwise there are disclosures.
The McCann twins, Kate tells us, understand the reason behind their parents visit to Sweden – And no, it’s not “All about the Money” it is to ask the good people of Sweden for their help in finding their missing daughter...
She tells us too, that the twins are able to re-collect events prior to May 2007 which she states has “thrown her”. In what way one might wonder? Does Kate McCann hope that they may recall the night of 3rd May 2007 and be able to throw some light as to who removed Madeleine from Apt 5A? Does it worry her that they might remember something crucial, or, was she simply thwarting an unwelcome question by the interviewer when he made the point that the twins may be too young to actually remember Madeleine?
When asked what her thoughts, now almost five years on, as to what happened to Madeleine, Kate McCann replies:
“Well my view hasn’t changed you know since 4th May really, and that is, that a man took Madeleine. And that man was the person who our friend Jane Tanner saw carrying a child away from the area of the apartment. And sadly I don’t really know anything else since.”
No prizes for spotting the deliberate mistake... But what possible reason could Kate McCann have for stating 4th May and not 3rd? Another red herring, she is rather fond of fish! Time will no doubt tell, but one thing we can be sure of - this was not a faux pas.
She does not “really know anything else since” she declares. Extraordinary that she should say this, as since the sighting by her good friend Jane Tanner there was another sighting by the Smith family, which sadly from Kate’s statement, seems to have escaped her memory.
Patio Door/Curtains
The question of the patio door being left open/closed by Kate after entering 5A on her check is as always a puzzle! In the interview with Oprah Winfrey, Kate states she looked behind her to see if she had left it open. She said she had not. In ‘Madeleine Was Here’ the McCann documentary, the ‘episode’ as to whether she closed the door behind her on entry, is not included at all in their portrayal of events. One wonders why – two different versions?
Now in the interview in Sweden, it re-surfaces.
Kate McCann said in this interview in Stockholm, that when the children’s bedroom door slammed shut, she checked the door behind her (patio door) to see if on entry to 5A she had left it open? She stated she had not. She, therefore based on this, knew that the bedroom door slamming shut was not caused by airflow from patio entrance. Yet, surprisingly, she did not then investigate what had caused the bedroom door to slam closed, where this gust had come from? To most, the obvious answer the bedroom window, but Kate does not check this out, she continued to close over the bedroom door in preparation of leaving 5A without investigating further... then she notices Madeleine is missing.
Not dissimilar to Gerry McCann. Looking in on his children, the open bedroom door once again being the ‘alert’ that something was not right. Yet on discovering his children were asleep had not been out of bed, he too fails to investigate further, he returns to the Tapas.
Quite extraordinary behaviour from both parents each stating the door caused them, if not concern, made them curious, yet each not bothering to discover why the door was open.
In a televised interview a few months back the McCann couple stated that Madeleine could not have exited 5a through unlocked patio door as Kate said “It’s just not possible” as Madeleine would not have:
a) Opened the long curtains, then closed them behind her;
b) Opened the patio door then closed it behind her;
c) Opened the child gate at top of stairs then closed it behind her;
If the child could not get past the first obstacle, the curtains, then stands to reason she would not have needed to attempt the other obstacles (the shutters). What it tells us though, is that when the McCann couple left the apartment by whichever door – the curtains framing the patio door were drawn closed, meeting in the centre.
If the McCann’s left by the patio door, and depending on whether the patio door from the inside opened right to left or vice versa, did they on leaving draw back the curtains at the central point where both curtains met so as to exit, in so doing, disturbing them, then returning them to original position? Or did they slip through the curtains at whichever side the door opening would be?
If they were able to do so, slip through without opening the curtains there is no reason to suggest that a child, just days shy of her 4th birthday would not be able to do likewise, that she could not slip behind curtains, and with much greater ease than her parents and their friends.
Process files - Volume I, Page 19 - Police photographic reportage of the Crime Scene
Also it appears that the patio door not only had heavier style curtains but also net curtains, of a flimsier material. So, two sets of curtains for the parents, those checking to deal with?
Which then begs the question, when Kate McCann entered 5A did she draw open these curtains to one side to gain entry, or did she simply flap around until she found an opening to get through?
What did Matt Oldfield do on his check? Did he return curtains to original position on leaving? And Gerry McCann, how about him? He claims to have left by this route also?
If Kate did not open the curtains on entry, when she then “looked behind her” to check if she had left the patio door open, her view would have been obscured. How could she have been sure it was closed without going over to the door and taking a closer look?
We therefore have to assume the curtains were open at that point, whether opened by Kate on entry, or that they were never closed at any time that night. In which case, Madeleine would not have had any “problem” with curtains as suggested in their interview.
Not one of them has ever mentioned curtains, having to negotiate them on entry/exiting by the patio door!
In police photos the curtains are open. Would that be how they were found to be on their arrival? Did the McCann couple/their friends draw them open and pin them back before police arrived?
Kate McCann said in this interview in Stockholm, that when the children’s bedroom door slammed shut, she checked the door behind her (patio door) to see if on entry to 5A she had left it open? She stated she had not. She, therefore based on this, knew that the bedroom door slamming shut was not caused by airflow from patio entrance. Yet, surprisingly, she did not then investigate what had caused the bedroom door to slam closed, where this gust had come from? To most, the obvious answer the bedroom window, but Kate does not check this out, she continued to close over the bedroom door in preparation of leaving 5A without investigating further... then she notices Madeleine is missing.
Not dissimilar to Gerry McCann. Looking in on his children, the open bedroom door once again being the ‘alert’ that something was not right. Yet on discovering his children were asleep had not been out of bed, he too fails to investigate further, he returns to the Tapas.
Quite extraordinary behaviour from both parents each stating the door caused them, if not concern, made them curious, yet each not bothering to discover why the door was open.
In a televised interview a few months back the McCann couple stated that Madeleine could not have exited 5a through unlocked patio door as Kate said “It’s just not possible” as Madeleine would not have:
a) Opened the long curtains, then closed them behind her;
b) Opened the patio door then closed it behind her;
c) Opened the child gate at top of stairs then closed it behind her;
If the child could not get past the first obstacle, the curtains, then stands to reason she would not have needed to attempt the other obstacles (the shutters). What it tells us though, is that when the McCann couple left the apartment by whichever door – the curtains framing the patio door were drawn closed, meeting in the centre.
If the McCann’s left by the patio door, and depending on whether the patio door from the inside opened right to left or vice versa, did they on leaving draw back the curtains at the central point where both curtains met so as to exit, in so doing, disturbing them, then returning them to original position? Or did they slip through the curtains at whichever side the door opening would be?
If they were able to do so, slip through without opening the curtains there is no reason to suggest that a child, just days shy of her 4th birthday would not be able to do likewise, that she could not slip behind curtains, and with much greater ease than her parents and their friends.
Process files - Volume I, Page 19 - Police photographic reportage of the Crime Scene
Also it appears that the patio door not only had heavier style curtains but also net curtains, of a flimsier material. So, two sets of curtains for the parents, those checking to deal with?
Which then begs the question, when Kate McCann entered 5A did she draw open these curtains to one side to gain entry, or did she simply flap around until she found an opening to get through?
What did Matt Oldfield do on his check? Did he return curtains to original position on leaving? And Gerry McCann, how about him? He claims to have left by this route also?
If Kate did not open the curtains on entry, when she then “looked behind her” to check if she had left the patio door open, her view would have been obscured. How could she have been sure it was closed without going over to the door and taking a closer look?
We therefore have to assume the curtains were open at that point, whether opened by Kate on entry, or that they were never closed at any time that night. In which case, Madeleine would not have had any “problem” with curtains as suggested in their interview.
Not one of them has ever mentioned curtains, having to negotiate them on entry/exiting by the patio door!
In police photos the curtains are open. Would that be how they were found to be on their arrival? Did the McCann couple/their friends draw them open and pin them back before police arrived?
Kate McCann always said, “if they had had to think about their decision to leave the children it would not have happened.” They have said many times that they, due to Madeleine telling them she was awake and crying the previous night, that they talked it over and decided to make more regular checks than on previous nights. Clearly, then if they were making more regular checks on the 3rd then they did not check as often as half hourly on the other nights.
Kate said, interestingly that it felt like a really “natural” thing to do, to go eat at the tapas restaurant on the complex. Not a mention, that it felt unnatural to leave three babies under 4 years of age alone while they did so. It is the most bizarre of statements, yet no one but no one questions them on this, not in any robust way? We have Gerry declaring how overprotective Kate was with the children. This is absolutely not demonstrated by their actions on any night during that holiday- their “collective mistake.” But how could the collective mistake have been allowed to continue when on the morning of 3rd Madeleine alerted them to their mistake. There it should have ended. On the night of 3rd there should not have been a repeat of this “collective mistake.” Some may consider, accept that it was a mistake up until that point, but most definitely not thereafter can it be described as such. It then became, without question, child neglect. They knew the risks, they knew their children had been awake and crying, they knew by leaving them they were placing them in a vulnerable position, a state of fear. They made a conscious decision to do so.
Gerry describes the alleged abductor as having taken a risky opportunity, Gerry and Kate McCann simply took avoidable risks with their children's lives.
More important might be that all of the above contradicts the rogatory statement given by Fiona Payne, when she declared that Kate McCann told her she left the patio door unlocked for Madeleine to be able to exit the apartment in her parent’s absence.
And I must point out also, in the McCann documentary, ‘Madeleine Was Here’ the film footage depicts the children’s bedroom as having net curtain, it is seen blowing in the breeze. (I do appreciate this was filmed in Rothley) Did the children’s bedroom window at 5A have netting? If so, another obstacle for any intruder - again two sets of curtains – that's troublesome!
Gerry's little dig that their children will read the horrible material on the internet which is written about them. It cannot be denied there is some nasty material out there. But more than this, they should be worried that the children read the police files, watch the interviews given by their parents, the ducking and diving, the money making which could easily be described as “scams”. But who knows, before that happens perhaps the culprits, those responsible for the crimes committed against Madeleine, will be behind bars.
1485 “But you said that Kate told you about Madeleine waking up?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1485 “And you couldn’t remember, you didn’t, you weren’t sure whether it was the night before?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1485 “Or, you know, the night before that?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1485 “What were the circumstances regarding her telling you that?”
Reply “She did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying ‘Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or’, erm, ‘or locking it and, you know, finding that we’re not there and the door’s locked if she woke up’, because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh”.
1485 “So she asked you what your thoughts were regarding locking?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1485 “Did she say whether she had locked or?”
Reply “No, that was the point, I think they said they’d left it, well she’d said she’d left it unlocked”.
1485 “Left the patio?”
Kate said, interestingly that it felt like a really “natural” thing to do, to go eat at the tapas restaurant on the complex. Not a mention, that it felt unnatural to leave three babies under 4 years of age alone while they did so. It is the most bizarre of statements, yet no one but no one questions them on this, not in any robust way? We have Gerry declaring how overprotective Kate was with the children. This is absolutely not demonstrated by their actions on any night during that holiday- their “collective mistake.” But how could the collective mistake have been allowed to continue when on the morning of 3rd Madeleine alerted them to their mistake. There it should have ended. On the night of 3rd there should not have been a repeat of this “collective mistake.” Some may consider, accept that it was a mistake up until that point, but most definitely not thereafter can it be described as such. It then became, without question, child neglect. They knew the risks, they knew their children had been awake and crying, they knew by leaving them they were placing them in a vulnerable position, a state of fear. They made a conscious decision to do so.
Gerry describes the alleged abductor as having taken a risky opportunity, Gerry and Kate McCann simply took avoidable risks with their children's lives.
More important might be that all of the above contradicts the rogatory statement given by Fiona Payne, when she declared that Kate McCann told her she left the patio door unlocked for Madeleine to be able to exit the apartment in her parent’s absence.
And I must point out also, in the McCann documentary, ‘Madeleine Was Here’ the film footage depicts the children’s bedroom as having net curtain, it is seen blowing in the breeze. (I do appreciate this was filmed in Rothley) Did the children’s bedroom window at 5A have netting? If so, another obstacle for any intruder - again two sets of curtains – that's troublesome!
Gerry's little dig that their children will read the horrible material on the internet which is written about them. It cannot be denied there is some nasty material out there. But more than this, they should be worried that the children read the police files, watch the interviews given by their parents, the ducking and diving, the money making which could easily be described as “scams”. But who knows, before that happens perhaps the culprits, those responsible for the crimes committed against Madeleine, will be behind bars.
1485 “But you said that Kate told you about Madeleine waking up?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1485 “And you couldn’t remember, you didn’t, you weren’t sure whether it was the night before?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1485 “Or, you know, the night before that?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1485 “What were the circumstances regarding her telling you that?”
Reply “She did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying ‘Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or’, erm, ‘or locking it and, you know, finding that we’re not there and the door’s locked if she woke up’, because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh”.
1485 “So she asked you what your thoughts were regarding locking?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1485 “Did she say whether she had locked or?”
Reply “No, that was the point, I think they said they’d left it, well she’d said she’d left it unlocked”.
1485 “Left the patio?”
Reply “And she felt a bit nervous about it but Gerry, Gerry had sort of said ‘Oh it will be fine’, you know. But she was obviously, because it wasn’t something she was quite easy with, that’s the way it came across, you know, but, but Gerry said, you know, ‘It’ll be fine. It’ll be fine’.
Fiona Payne statement to the Leicestershire police, April 2008
Fiona Payne statement to the Leicestershire police, April 2008
L'interview de Stockholm nous a peut-être offert la prestation la plus soignée et la plus compétente du couple MC à ce jour, soignée à la fois dans son apparence et dans la façon dont ils ont raconté l'enlèvement, comme s'il s'agissait d'un jeu d'enfant.
Cependant, une "sortie" des MC ne serait jamais complète sans une pincée de limitation des dégâts, non pas dans le seul but de minimiser leur rôle dans ce qui est arrivé à Madeleine - bien que ce soit également le cas - mais plutôt dans le cadre d'une autre tentative désespérée, un exercice visant à dresser un joli tableau en se présentant non seulement comme la partie lésée, mais aussi comme plus blanche que blanche. Le visage triste de Kate - je suis damnée si je souris, damnée si je ne souris pas -, une dramaturge passionnée, associée au sourire déconcertant de Gerry - où est l'enfant ? Les MC ne déçoivent jamais leur public, leur conduite égocentrique vaut toujours la peine d'être observée.
Une interview des MC sans l'ingrédient principal - le désormais habituel saupoudrage d'insultes à l'égard de la police portugaise et de toute autre personne en fait, qui pourrait être en désaccord avec leur théorie de l'enlèvement - est quelque chose que nous avons fini par attendre.
L'avantage est peut-être que chaque fois que KMC fait une apparition, délibérément ou non, il y a des révélations.
Les jumeaux McCann, nous dit Kate, comprennent la raison de la visite de leurs parents en Suède - et non, ce n'est pas une question d'argent, c'est pour demander au bon peuple suédois de les aider à retrouver leur fille disparue...
Elle nous dit aussi que les jumeaux sont capables de se remémorer des événements antérieurs à mai 2007, ce qui, selon elle, l'a "déstabilisée". On peut se demander de quelle manière. KMC espère-t-elle qu'ils se souviendront de la nuit du 3 mai 2007 et qu'ils seront en mesure d'apporter des éclaircissements sur la personne qui a enlevé Madeleine de l'appartement 5A ? S'inquiète-t-elle qu'ils puissent se souvenir de quelque chose de crucial, ou a-t-elle simplement contrecarré une question malvenue de l'intervieweur faisant remarquer que les jumeaux étaient peut-être trop jeunes pour se souvenir de Madeleine ?
Lorsqu'on lui demande ce qu'elle pense, près de cinq ans plus tard, de ce qui est arrivé à Madeleine, KMC répond : "Mon opinion n'a pas changé depuis le 4 mai, c'est-à-dire qu'un homme a enlevé Madeleine. Et cet homme est la personne que notre amie Jane Tanner a vue porter un enfant loin de l'appartement. Et malheureusement, je ne sais rien d'autre depuis".
Pas de prix pour avoir repéré l'erreur délibérée... Mais quelle raison Kate McCann aurait-elle pu avoir pour déclarer le 4 mai et non le 3 ? Encore un faux-fuyant, elle aime bien les poissons ! L'avenir nous le dira sans doute, mais une chose est sûre : il ne s'agit pas d'un faux pas. Elle ne sait "vraiment rien d'autre depuis", déclare-t-elle. Il est extraordinaire qu'elle dise cela, car quelques jours après le signalement de Jane Tanner, il y a eu un autre signalement par la famille S, qui, malheureusement, d'après la déclaration de Kate, semble avoir échappé à sa mémoire.
Porte-fenêtre/rideaux
La question de la porte patio laissée ouverte/fermée par Kate après son entrée pour faire sa ronde est comme toujours une énigme ! Dans l'interview accordée à Oprah Winfrey, Kate déclare qu'elle a regardé derrière elle pour voir si elle l'avait laissée ouverte. Elle a répondu par la négative. Dans "Madeleine Was Here", le documentaire des MC tourné par Emma Loach, la question de savoir si elle a fermé la porte derrière elle en entrant n'est pas du tout incluse dans la description des événements. On peut se demander pourquoi - deux versions différentes ?
Aujourd'hui, dans l'interview en Suède, la question refait surface.
Kate McCann a déclaré dans cette interview à Stockholm que lorsque la porte de la chambre des enfants s'est refermée, elle a vérifié la porte derrière elle (porte-fenêtre) pour voir si, en entrant au 5A, elle ne l'avait pas laissée ouverte. Elle a déclaré que ce n'était pas le cas. Elle savait donc que le claquement de la porte de la chambre n'était pas dû au flux d'air provenant de l'entrée du patio. (mais ce courant d'air éventuel n'aurait pas refermé la porte !) Il est surprenant qu'elle n'ait pas cherché à savoir ce qui avait provoqué le claquement de la porte de la chambre, d'où venait cette rafale. Pour la plupart des gens, la réponse évidente est la fenêtre de la chambre, mais Kate n'a pas vérifié, elle a continué à fermer la porte de la chambre en se préparant à quitter le 5A sans chercher plus loin... puis elle s'est aperçue que Madeleine n'était pas là.
Ce n'est pas très différent avec GMC. Il a regardé ses enfants, la porte de la chambre ouverte étant une fois de plus le signal d'alarme que quelque chose n'allait pas. Pourtant, lorsqu'il découvre que ses enfants sont endormis et qu'ils ne sont pas sortis du lit, il ne cherche pas plus loin et retourne au Tapas.
Un comportement tout à fait extraordinaire de la part des deux parents, chacun affirmant que la porte leur a causé, sinon de l'inquiétude, du moins de la curiosité, sans pour autant se préoccuper de savoir pourquoi la porte était ouverte.
Lors d'une interview télévisée il y a quelques mois, le couple McCann a déclaré que Madeleine n'aurait pas pu sortir du 5a par la porte-fenêtre non verrouillée, comme l'a dit Kate : "Ce n'est tout simplement pas possible", car Madeleine n'aurait pas.. :
a) ouvert les longs rideaux, en les refermant ensuite derrière elle ;
b) ouvert la porte-fenêtre en la refermant ensuite derrière elle ;
c) ouvert la barrière pour enfants en haut des escaliers en la refermant ensuite derrière elle ;
Si l'enfant n'a pas pu franchir le premier obstacle, les rideaux, il est logique qu'elle n'ait pas eu besoin d'essayer de franchir les autres obstacles (les volets). Si l'enfant ne pouvait pas franchir le premier obstacle, il est logique qu'elle n'ait pas eu besoin d'essayer de franchir les autres obstacles (les volets). Obstacles ? Alors que tout était ouvert pour qu'elle puisse sortir à la recherche de ses parents ?
Si les McCann sont sortis par la porte-fenêtre, et si la porte-fenêtre de l'intérieur s'ouvrait de droite à gauche, ont-ils, en partant, tiré les rideaux au point central où les deux rideaux se rejoignaient pour sortir, les dérangeant ainsi, puis les remettant dans leur position d'origine ? Ou bien se sont-ils glissés à travers les rideaux ? S'ils ont pu le faire sans ouvrir les rideaux, il n'y a aucune raison de penser qu'une enfant, à quelques jours de son quatrième anniversaire, ne pouvait pas faire de même, qu'elle ne pouvait pas se glisser derrière les rideaux, et ce avec beaucoup plus de facilité que ses parents et leurs amis.
Il apparaît également que la porte-fenêtre était équipée non seulement de doubles-rideaux, mais aussi de rideaux transparents en matériau plus léger. Donc, deux jeux de rideaux pour les parents, ce qui est très difficile à gérer ? La question qui se pose alors est la suivante : lorsque KMC est entrée dans le 5A, a-t-elle écarté ces rideaux d'un côté pour entrer, ou s'est-elle simplement agitée jusqu'à ce qu'elle trouve une ouverture pour passer ?
Qu'a fait Matt O lors de sa ronde ? A-t-il remis les rideaux dans leur position initiale en partant ? Et GMC ? Il prétend être parti par cette voie également ?
Si Kate n'a pas ouvert les rideaux en entrant, lorsqu'elle a ensuite "regardé derrière elle" pour vérifier si elle avait laissé la porte-fenêtre ouverte, sa vue aurait été obscurcie. Comment aurait-elle pu s'assurer que la porte était fermée sans s'approcher de la porte et la regarder de plus près ?
Nous devons donc supposer que les rideaux étaient ouverts à ce moment-là, que Kate les avait ouverts en entrant, ou qu'ils n'avaient jamais été fermés cette nuit-là. Dans ce cas, Madeleine n'aurait pas eu de "problème" avec les rideaux, comme le suggère leur entretien.
Aucun d'entre eux n'a jamais mentionné les rideaux, ni le fait d'avoir à les négocier en entrant ou en sortant par la porte-fenêtre !
Sur les photos de la police, les rideaux sont ouverts. Est-ce que c'est ainsi qu'ils ont été trouvés à leur arrivée ? Le couple MC/leurs amis les ont-ils tirés et remis en place avant l'arrivée de la police ?
KMC a toujours dit que "s'ils avaient dû réfléchir à leur décision de laisser les enfants, cela ne se serait pas produit". Ils ont dit à plusieurs reprises que Madeleine leur ayant dit qu'elle était réveillée et qu'elle pleurait la nuit précédente, ils en ont discuté et ont décidé de procéder à des contrôles plus réguliers que les nuits précédentes. Il est donc évident que s'ils ont procédé à des vérifications plus régulières le 3, ils ne l'ont pas fait aussi souvent que toutes les demi-heures les autres nuits.
Kate a dit, et c'est intéressant, qu'il lui semblait vraiment "naturel" d'aller manger au restaurant de tapas du complexe. Elle n'a pas mentionné qu'il lui semblait contre nature de laisser trois bébés de moins de 4 ans seuls pendant qu'elle le faisait. C'est la déclaration la plus bizarre qui soit, et pourtant personne ne les interroge à ce sujet, d'aucune manière sérieuse ? Gerry a déclaré à quel point Kate était surprotectrice avec les enfants. Cela n'est absolument pas démontré par leurs actions, quelle que soit la nuit de ces vacances - leur "erreur collective". Mais comment l'erreur collective aurait-elle pu se poursuivre alors que le 3 au matin, Madeleine les aurait alertés sur leur erreur. C'est là qu'elle aurait dû s'arrêter. Le soir du 3, l'erreur collective n'aurait pas dû se répéter. Certains peuvent considérer, accepter qu'il s'agissait d'une erreur jusqu'à ce moment-là, mais elle ne peut plus, à partir de ce moment-là, être décrite comme telle. Il s'agit alors, sans aucun doute, d'une négligence à l'égard d'un enfant. Ils connaissaient les risques, ils savaient que leurs enfants étaient éveillés et pleuraient, ils savaient qu'en les laissant, ils les plaçaient dans une position vulnérable, dans une situation de peur. Ils ont pris la décision consciente de le faire.
Gerry décrit le ravisseur présumé comme ayant pris un risque, Gerry et Kate McCann ont simplement pris des risques évitables avec la vie de leurs enfants.
Plus important encore, tout ce qui précède contredit la commission rogatoire de Fiona Payne, qui a déclaré que Kate McCann lui avait dit avoir laissé la porte-fenêtre déverrouillée pour que Madeleine puisse sortir de l'appartement en l'absence de ses parents.
Je dois également souligner que dans le documentaire MC, "Madeleine Was Here", les images montrent que la chambre des enfants est équipée d'un rideau "voile", que l'on voit claquer dans la brise. (Je comprends que le film a été tourné à Rothley Probablement pas les rideaux qui s'envolent) La fenêtre de la chambre des enfants au 5A était-elle munie d'une moustiquaire ? Si c'est le cas, c'est un autre obstacle pour tout intrus - encore une fois, deux jeux de rideaux - c'est gênant !
Gerry ne veut pas que ses enfants lisent les documents horribles qui sont écrits à leur sujet sur l'internet. On ne peut pas nier qu'il y ait des choses désagréables sur Internet. Mais plus encore, ils devraient s'inquiéter que leurs enfants lisent les dossiers de la police, regardent les interviews données par leurs parents, l'esquive et le plongeon, les gains d'argent qui pourraient facilement être décrits comme des "escroqueries". Mais qui sait, avant que cela n'arrive, peut-être que les coupables, les responsables des crimes commis contre Madeleine, seront derrière les barreaux.
1485 "Mais vous avez dit que Kate vous avait parlé du réveil de Madeleine ?"
Réponse : " Oui ".
1485 "Et vous ne pouviez pas vous souvenir, vous n'étiez pas, vous n'étiez pas sûre que c'était la nuit précédente ?"
Réponse " Oui ".
1485 " Ou, vous savez, la nuit d'avant ? "
Réponse : " Oui ".
1485 " Quelles ont été les circonstances dans lesquelles elle vous a dit cela ? "
Réponse : " Elle l'a fait, elle en a parlé et, je veux dire, c'est horrible rétrospectivement, elle m'a demandé mon avis sur, euh, tut, sur la question de savoir s'ils avaient eu raison de laisser les portes ouvertes, parce qu'elle disait : " Est-ce que c'est mieux que si Madeleine se réveille, elle puisse sortir et nous trouver ou ", euh, " ou la fermer à clé et, vous savez, découvrir que nous ne sommes pas là et que la porte est fermée à clé si elle se réveille ", parce que Madeleine s'était réveillée, ce que je pensais être la nuit d'avant. Erm, tut, et c'était dans ce contexte vraiment, juste pour demander, vous savez, ce que je pensais. Donc c'était manifestement quelque chose qui la préoccupait un peu, hein".
1485 "Elle vous a donc demandé ce que vous pensiez du verrouillage de la porte ?"
Réponse : " Oui ".
1485 " A-t-elle dit si elle avait verrouillé ou non ? "
Réponse : " Non, c'était le but, je crois qu'ils ont dit qu'ils l'avaient laissée, enfin elle avait dit qu'elle l'avait laissée déverrouillée ".
1485 "Laissé la porte du patio ?"
Réponse "Elle était un peu nerveuse, mais Gerry, Gerry avait dit 'Oh, ça va aller', vous savez. Mais elle était évidemment, parce que ce n'était pas quelque chose avec lequel elle était très à l'aise, c'est comme ça que ça s'est passé, vous savez, mais, mais Gerry a dit, vous savez, 'Ça va aller. Ça va aller".
Déclaration de Fiona Payne à la police du Leicestershire, avril 2008
Fiona Payne statement to the Leicestershire police, April 2008
