Larry
King Live - 07.09.2007
Le
jour même où Kate MC devenait témoin assistée (arguida) et refusait de répondre aux 48 questions de la PJ, Larry King, exhibant un sens remarquable de l'opportunité, consacra son talk show à l’affaire
MC. (1) Cet adepte de la brièveté en fait de questions et d’interventions ne prétendit jamais faire du journalisme, mais de
l’infotainment, un mot-valise que l'on
pourrait traduire par infortissement. Mais divertir n'est pas faire n'importe quoi et Larry King tenait à son image de sérieux et de bonne foi, sans se départir d'une certaine candeur. Il n’est pas sûr que cet objectif ait été accompli
le soir du 7 septembre 2007.
Le
talk show démarra sur le coup de théâtre qui sans nul doute excita les passions médiatiques et
contribua à la notoriété définitive de l’affaire MC : de victimes les parents étaient en un clin d'oeil devenus suspects. Et immédiatement après l'annonce de ce surprise twist, une voix off renchérit en fait de breaking news : la police avait proposé un marché à Kate MC, elle devait reconnaître avoir été à
l’origine de la mort accidentelle de Madeleine, la peine serait réduite. (2)
L'intérêt de ce talk show est moins dans ce qui s'y est dit, car les invités (hors proches des MC) ne détenaient pratiquement que des informations erronées, glanées vraisemblablement dans la presse, mais le manque total de retenue de la plupart des discours. Seule l'ex-profiler du FBI, Candice DeLong, et l'assistante du State attorney de Floride, Stacey Honowitz, ont rappelé à plusieurs reprises qu'aucune information fiable n'étayait les propos échangés sur le plateau de Larry King.
Voix off F : We haven't heard, until now, about possible blood found in a
rental car used by the McCanns.
Voix off M : A sudden and astonishing shift in the case of Madeleine McCann.Anderson Cooper, (CNN anchoo) : Her story begins innocently enough. Kate and Gerry McCann, a British couple, take Madeleine and her twin 2-year-old brother and sister on vacation to a resort in Portugal.
Voix off M : Here, Gerry, we're on holiday. (3)
AC : On the evening of May 3rd, after the children were asleep, Kate and Gerry left their ground floor room and the kids alone to have dinner at a restaurant about 300 feet away. A short time later, Kate went to check on the kids and says she discovered Madeleine was gone. (4)
Larry King :
And that story continues to get more bizarre all the time. Joining
us in Liverpool, England is John Corner, a friend of the McCanns,
parents of the missing little girl, godfather to Madeleine's younger
twin siblings. And he has been speaking with Madeleine's mother,
Kate.
In Salt Lake City is our friend, Ed Smart, the father of Elizabeth Smart, kidnapped and recovered. He's become a friend of the McCanns and has spoken with the father, Gerry. In Portugal is Robert Moore, the ITN correspondent who's been covering this from the start.
And on the phone in Scotland is Philomena McCann, who is Gerry's sister and who broke the news today that there was some sort of plea bargain offered to the mother. What can you tell us about it, Philomena ?
Philomena MC : Well, just what I said, you know, (inaudible) she would confess to a claim that she (inaudible) would be given a sentence, you know, very reduced, like two years or
even less, if she just said that she accidentally killed Madeleine, something that she's never going to say because there's no truth in it whatsoever. (5)
LK : What do they tell you, your brother and your sister-in-law, about all of this?
PMC : Well, just that they - as much as possible they've been helping the police. And they can't believe how this has turned right around with them becoming suspects in this case and the fact that all of their attention now seems to be focusing on them, and Madeleine has not been looked for with the vigor and intensity that they want. Madeleine is still missing. They're still looking for her and yet the police are not. (6)
PMC : Well, just that they - as much as possible they've been helping the police. And they can't believe how this has turned right around with them becoming suspects in this case and the fact that all of their attention now seems to be focusing on them, and Madeleine has not been looked for with the vigor and intensity that they want. Madeleine is still missing. They're still looking for her and yet the police are not. (6)
LK : What do they think happened?
PMC : Well, the police are trying to suggest that some kind of ridiculous accident and then that they have kept Madeleine's body hidden, to move her around 25 days or so later, and put her somewhere else. I mean the speculation is utterly stupid. And not just that, it's insulting. Gerry and Kate have been watched by the world media since the day that started. To even suggest such a ridiculous story beggars belief. (7)
LK : How have you become friends with them?
ES : One of my friends at the National Center (NCMEC) put us in touch. And in July, we talked for some time. And we've been in touch. I've been in touch with them two or three times in the past week. And I mean my heart just goes out for them. I just think this is outrageous.
LK : And you have complete belief in their story?
ES : I have complete belief. I mean why would a parent, one, subject themselves to the criticism of having left their children and then to stay on in Portugal for four months -- for four months looking for her ? If they were suspect, why wouldn't they have just gone home and kind of let this die out and not care ? (12) They care very much. And I know, I know in my heart that they are absolutely not the ones. And, you know, somebody's got to get in there and be able to help the police see that they cannot have the tunnel vision that they have, because they are missing what could be out there. (13)
LK : Philomena, remain with us.We're
going to call on you for a few more moments here, in addition with
our panel, if you can hang with us.
LK :Robert
Moore, you've covered this from the start. Is
that - are they both through with being questioned?
Robert Moore (couverture journalistique pour ITN) : Yes, they are now. They both have gone home and have left the police
station. But, yes. I'm hearing the same from my sources here,
essentially, it is extraordinary how the Portuguese investigators
have handled Kate McCann, in particular. They simply said to her
if you confess to killing Madeleine, we can guarantee that you'll
have two or three years in prison. They even suggested that she'd be
out free again after a year, she'd be able to see her twins grow up. (8)
And
Kate just was shocked by that and completely rejected it out of hand.
She sees it emotional blackmail, as intimidation. And she is
adamant, as is Gerry, that they are innocent of all connections to
the disappearance of their daughter.
LK : John Corner, you're a friend of the McCanns. Isn't
it logical, though, for the parents in a case like this to be
initially suspected?
Jon Corner :Yes, you're right, Larry. It's procedure. And right at the
beginning of Madeleine's abduction, both Kate and Gerry were very,
very carefully and rigorously questioned. (9) And you get a sense that you're questioned, it's cleared, you can move on
and you can start the actual campaign, the search, the fight to find
Madeleine, who is missing, who is still missing. And to have come
full circle in this way, after four months, is bizarre, quite
frankly, and flies in the face of common sense. (10)
LK :
Ed Smart, as I remember it, you were -- well I don't know if you were
ever a suspect. You were questioned, though, in the disappearance of
Elizabeth (censée avoir été enlevée à 14 ans par un tiers), were you not?
Ed Smart : Oh,
yes. I mean family members -- I was considered a potential suspect.
You know, it's not unusual at all. I mean that's the first place
they've got to check. The
thing is that this has gone on for, what, over 100 days. And, you
know, the - I spoke with Gerry this morning and he was absolutely
outraged that the police could come to this point, when they
haven't really done any of the things they should have done.
Initially, there was a person who said they saw a man carrying off a
young girl. And they could have done a forensic artist's rendering
on that and that has never been done. (11) When
Gerry and I spoke before, I said, you know, Gerry, have they
brought in a specialist (probablement un profiler) ? Have
they brought someone to take a look at the whole investigation and
see where somebody might have overlooked ? And
he said no, they wouldn't even consider that.
LK : No?
ES : That wasn't even a possibility.LK : No?
LK : How have you become friends with them?
ES : One of my friends at the National Center (NCMEC) put us in touch. And in July, we talked for some time. And we've been in touch. I've been in touch with them two or three times in the past week. And I mean my heart just goes out for them. I just think this is outrageous.
LK : And you have complete belief in their story?
ES : I have complete belief. I mean why would a parent, one, subject themselves to the criticism of having left their children and then to stay on in Portugal for four months -- for four months looking for her ? If they were suspect, why wouldn't they have just gone home and kind of let this die out and not care ? (12) They care very much. And I know, I know in my heart that they are absolutely not the ones. And, you know, somebody's got to get in there and be able to help the police see that they cannot have the tunnel vision that they have, because they are missing what could be out there. (13)
John Walsh (America's Most Wanted) : This is a small police agency in Portugal that has never dealt with a case of a missing child, has very limited resources, is having all kinds of scrutiny from the media throughout the world. It's not unusual for them to focus back in on the family when they're frustrated and don't have any other suspects. (14)
LK : Philomena McCann, we're going to let you go because I know how tired
you are, but one other thing. Did your sister-in-law, Kate, say
anything to you about the possibility that she would be charged ?PMC : She just said that it remained a possibility, but -- and that was all she knew. But she wasn't about to be charged. And I'll tell you that's totally underestimated Kate. She's not going to take this lying down. She's going to continue to fight and hunt for Madeleine, and they'll be fighting the Portuguese police if they have to because it's an outrage.
LK : How are the twins doing?
PMC : The twins are doing plenty well, actually. And my mother's been out here helping and my sister, and they just love having the extended family around them. The kids are coping remarkably well.
LK : Thank you. You're doing a noble job. Philomena McCann.
LK : We welcome now to our panel Dr. Cyril Wecht, the famed forensic pathologist and attorney, former coroner of Allegheny county, and Candice DeLong, former FBI profiler joins us from San Francisco. Dr. Wecht, what do you make about this blood report in the car?
LK : Does this mean, Dr. Wecht, that you doubt their guilt?
CW :
Yes, I do. Where was this body for all of these days? And they were
remaining there, and there is no way that they could have taken a
little jaunt and thrown that baby somewhere, from the little I
know about the Algarve area. This defies my olfactory senses
as a forensic pathologist. (15) LK : Gotcha. What does it do to our former profiler Candice DeLong ? What do you make of this case?
Candice Delong (ex-profiler du FBI) : Well, a lot of the information we're
talking about tonight really has not been confirmed by the police.
One of the things that I would like to say is regarding this lengthy
interrogation that the parents are now suspects, the parents
didn't just become suspects. They've
probably been -- should have been at least considered as possible
suspects from the very beginning. And Larry, the reason for that
is, in the vast majority of cases of missing children of this age,
not all, the vast majority, it turns out that they are missing and
were murdered by a parent. Approximately 75 percent. (16)
LK : Wow.CD : So that's why the parents always have to be looked at. That certainly does not mean they did it.
LK : What's the typical motive?
CD : Well, oftentimes what we see when very young children - and we're just talking here, we're not talking necessarily about Madeleine - when they are murdered by a parent, the motive more often than not is that it was an accident. Oftentimes we see children that are murdered by a parent were hit so hard that they died having to do with blunt force trauma to the head. And what you're looking at when you see a child killed that way is the results of a parent that lost control of their temper and hit a young child way too hard. And sometimes the parents that this happens to, they call the police, and sometimes they stage the crime scene and try and make it look different. And sometimes they try to get rid of the body. (17)
LK : The longer this takes, Dr. Wecht, is it going to be harder to find who did it and find her?
LK : Thanks, Dr. Wecht. Thanks for joining us.
Gerald MC : Never, never, ever jeopardize the investigation. And I think it's critical for people to realize that. (19)
Kate MC : We will do anything to cooperate with the police to get Madeleine back. (20)
GMC : We hope and pray for her every single day that today will be the day that Madeleine will be found.
KMC : We beg you to let Madeleine come home.
LK : Robert Moore, how is the -- before we meet some other panelists joining us -- how is the Portuguese media treating this?
RM : Well, frankly, we're a tidal wave of rumor. And frankly, many of the Portuguese newspapers are openly saying that they believe that Kate and Gerry are involved in the disappearance of Madeleine. You know, I spoke to a source close to the investigation. I was asking how Gerry has dealt with the questioning. And she said, well, just imagine how an angry Scot is defending the honor of his wife. In other words, Gerry is giving as good as he gets to the Portuguese detectives.
There have been some very, very angry exchanges in this police station behind me. You know, certainly it's becoming a high-octane questioning of both Kate and Gerry. They are trying to defend themselves every inch of the way now.
Kate MC : We will do anything to cooperate with the police to get Madeleine back. (20)
GMC : We hope and pray for her every single day that today will be the day that Madeleine will be found.
KMC : We beg you to let Madeleine come home.
LK : Robert Moore, how is the -- before we meet some other panelists joining us -- how is the Portuguese media treating this?
RM : Well, frankly, we're a tidal wave of rumor. And frankly, many of the Portuguese newspapers are openly saying that they believe that Kate and Gerry are involved in the disappearance of Madeleine. You know, I spoke to a source close to the investigation. I was asking how Gerry has dealt with the questioning. And she said, well, just imagine how an angry Scot is defending the honor of his wife. In other words, Gerry is giving as good as he gets to the Portuguese detectives.
There have been some very, very angry exchanges in this police station behind me. You know, certainly it's becoming a high-octane questioning of both Kate and Gerry. They are trying to defend themselves every inch of the way now.
LK : We're joined by two of our legal regulars, Stacey Honowitz, the Florida assistant state attorney. She is in Miami. And in Los Angeles, Mark Geragos, the criminal defense attorney. Mark, how does this look to you? Does it look like a railroad or what?
Mark Geragos (criminel defense attorney : Well, actually, it happens so often, it's surprising to me that it's not publicized more often. The reason that most people aren't jumping on the bandwagon in this case is because both of these people have acted right, if you will. I mean, generally, if you don't act right, that's when the police start to focus on you, and then that's what the media starts to kind of blitzkrieg you, if you will.
LK :How ?
MG : In this case there hasn't been anything anybody's ever suggested where either one of these people have ever acted differently than they should have, and consequently, I think that's why there's been so much support. Clearly, the -- anybody who's at least watching what's going on, some of the things that have been suggested, at least by the police in the investigation, just appear to be ludicrous on their face. (21)
LK : Stacey, how do you view it?
Stacey Honowitz (Florida prosecutor) : Well, I think what viewers have to
remember is they're not charged with anything yet. They're just
listed as suspects. And under Portuguese law, in order to go
from a witness to a suspect, you have to be declared a suspect
because that will forge you more rights. Because if they want
to ask you deeper questions, which they think might incriminate you,
you have a right to remain silent, as we do here, or to have a lawyer
assist you. And
in this case, although they are questioning them more thoroughly,
they did get lawyers, and it doesn't necessarily mean they're
going to be charged with a crime. So right now all we have is
rumor. We don't know what the evidence is. We're going to have to
wait and see what comes out of this.
MG : That follows you around the rest of your life.
SH : I'm not saying that they won't always be listed or people might think that they were involved, but that doesn't mean they're going to be charged with the crime. You can never get your reputation back, that's true.
MG : Why do the police have to reveal it? Why do they have to let this out? Why is this something that needs to be out there in the public realm ? (23)
SH : Quite frankly, I don't know if they did reveal it. They went to them early in the week. I think on Monday they called them and said we want to question you more thoroughly. That's -- and then on Wednesday, the lawyer went and said, we're going to go in and represent them. I don't know what the police did.
MG : Right. In response to the leaks.
LK : Let me get in one more question for Candice DeLong who is going to be leaving us. Candice, do you believe this case will be solved?
CD : Well, I agree with Dr. Wecht. The longer it goes on, the less likely is that it will. I do believe that if Mrs. McCann had nothing to do with this, and certainly she - I can't see this as the type of person that would say - will take a plea agreement just to end it, if she is truly innocent. It's pretty unlikely, statistically, that Madeleine was taken by a stranger for some kind of nefarious reason. (24)
LK : Huh.
CD : But we'll see.
LK : Thanks, Candice, as always.
Justine McGuinness (MC PR) : She's a loving and caring mother. And anybody who knows Kate would know that she wouldn't hurt a fly.
John McCann (frère de Gerald) : Put the facts on the table. Let's see what
they are. Because anybody who knows Gerry and Kate knows that to
implicate them in any way is ridiculous.
Susan Healy (mère de Kate) : What everybody forgets is there's a missing child. There's a child that's taken from an apartment. Who's doing anything to find this child?
Nobody could have ever imagined that the media profile would have become as huge as it is. And I think it's becoming a national embarrassment for the Portuguese. I think there's a real pressure on the police to wrap it up. And there's also a cultural difference as well because the Portuguese mindset is very much that this is a British problem that's been imported into their country. And I think this focus on the family is part of that, that cultural attempt to wrap it up as a British issue. (25)
LK : Mark, have you ever defended a parent accused of killing a child?
MG : Yes, as recently as last week.
LK : And if they were innocent, isn't that the hardest thing to live through, not only is your child gone, but you're being accused?
MG : Well, it's twofold or maybe even threefold what the problem is here. First of all, you're being accused. No parent, as we've discussed before countless times, ever wants to even imagine that their child is going to die before them. I mean, it's the worst thing you could ever have. Then when you have the police - when you cooperate with the police and then when the suspicion starts to get focused on you or the accusation's on you, that compounds matters, and it compounds just the sense of confusion and shock. But then when you're this far removed from that initially and you see that they're wasting their time and their resources on you, you want to reach out and choke somebody. It's just ridiculous at a certain point. (28)
MG : Wait a second.
SH : They are not charged with a crime.
MG : OK. Can I just ask you a question here, Stacey?
SH : Wait. They have to be able to investigate.
MG : If they found blood in that car, how are they going to say at this insipient stage of the investigation we know it was an accident, we're going to offer you two years ? If they honestly believe that this woman had something to do with it, why are they offering her, you'll be out of this in a year ? And how insulting is that that if she didn't do it, she would take that one year and put it behind her ? Why? Because she never wants to find her child again? So the investigation will stop? How stupid. It's utterly stupid. (29)
SH : I'm not saying what the police did by saying to her, listen, take this plea and we'll get it all over with, I can't tell you why they did that.
MG : Because they're brain dead.
SH :People are asking questions, why are they interviewing the parents?
MG : Because they're desperate.
SH : If they focus in on the family, they have to. OK ?
MG : They already did. They've had four months. They've had four months to do it. It's obviously pure desperation.
SH : Can I ask you one question? Do we have any idea if any of the statements between the mother and the father, and I don't know so I'm not saying - do we know if there were inconsistencies ?
MG : Of course there's going to be, yes.
SH : There could be evidence that we don't know about.
MG : Of course there are inconsistencies. Nobody's going to be ...
LK : Robert Moore, has the public generally supported this couple in Portugal?
RM :
Not necessarily in Portugal, but certainly they have in Britain, as
you'd expect. I think the key point tonight in many ways, Larry, is
we just don't yet know the strength or the consistency of the
forensic evidence. You know, but what is clear is two sets of people
under supreme pressure. Most, obviously, Kate and Gerry McCann, but
also the Portuguese police here. They don't have a body yet. They've
been making a lot of accusations. So the forensic evidence had better
be pretty good.
LK : Think we're going to solve it, Mark?
MG : No, I don't think they are. I think -- well, are they going to solve it correctly?
LK : Yeah.
MG : That's probably a better question. They may solve it, and I'm not so sure that the way they solve it will be the correct way.
LK : Stacey?
LK : Did you remain confident throughout?
ES : I did. I felt like Elizabeth was out there. I had these impressions, and I could not give up. And I know that Gerry and Kate feel the same way.
Mark Geragos (criminel defense attorney : Well, actually, it happens so often, it's surprising to me that it's not publicized more often. The reason that most people aren't jumping on the bandwagon in this case is because both of these people have acted right, if you will. I mean, generally, if you don't act right, that's when the police start to focus on you, and then that's what the media starts to kind of blitzkrieg you, if you will.
LK :How ?
MG : In this case there hasn't been anything anybody's ever suggested where either one of these people have ever acted differently than they should have, and consequently, I think that's why there's been so much support. Clearly, the -- anybody who's at least watching what's going on, some of the things that have been suggested, at least by the police in the investigation, just appear to be ludicrous on their face. (21)
LK : Stacey, how do you view it?
MG :
Yeah, but Stacey, having defended thousands of people, I can tell you
something. It's extremely difficult, once you've been named a
suspect, to ever get that back, especially if the case is never
solved. (22)
SH :
Mark, I'm not -- listen.MG : That follows you around the rest of your life.
SH : I'm not saying that they won't always be listed or people might think that they were involved, but that doesn't mean they're going to be charged with the crime. You can never get your reputation back, that's true.
MG : Why do the police have to reveal it? Why do they have to let this out? Why is this something that needs to be out there in the public realm ? (23)
SH : Quite frankly, I don't know if they did reveal it. They went to them early in the week. I think on Monday they called them and said we want to question you more thoroughly. That's -- and then on Wednesday, the lawyer went and said, we're going to go in and represent them. I don't know what the police did.
MG : Right. In response to the leaks.
LK : Let me get in one more question for Candice DeLong who is going to be leaving us. Candice, do you believe this case will be solved?
CD : Well, I agree with Dr. Wecht. The longer it goes on, the less likely is that it will. I do believe that if Mrs. McCann had nothing to do with this, and certainly she - I can't see this as the type of person that would say - will take a plea agreement just to end it, if she is truly innocent. It's pretty unlikely, statistically, that Madeleine was taken by a stranger for some kind of nefarious reason. (24)
LK : Huh.
CD : But we'll see.
LK : Thanks, Candice, as always.
Justine McGuinness (MC PR) : She's a loving and caring mother. And anybody who knows Kate would know that she wouldn't hurt a fly.
Susan Healy (mère de Kate) : What everybody forgets is there's a missing child. There's a child that's taken from an apartment. Who's doing anything to find this child?
LK : Jon Corner, does it hurt you to the core when you hear an FBI
profiler say that the odds are 75 percent that the parents did it?
JC :
It's very unusual to listen to, Larry. It's more unusual to listen to
them talking about Madeleine as a dead body because we truly believe
she's out there, and she's still alive. And certainly Kate is holding
on to that belief and so is Gerry. I can just say, though, I think as
far as the investigation goes, I think there's a tremendous amount of
hindsight going on.Nobody could have ever imagined that the media profile would have become as huge as it is. And I think it's becoming a national embarrassment for the Portuguese. I think there's a real pressure on the police to wrap it up. And there's also a cultural difference as well because the Portuguese mindset is very much that this is a British problem that's been imported into their country. And I think this focus on the family is part of that, that cultural attempt to wrap it up as a British issue. (25)
LK : Ed Smart, you, too, had to listen to reports of your daughter's
death.
ES :
I did. And Elizabeth was and is alive. And Gerry truly believes that
Madeleine is still alive, and this is diverting the attention from
where it needs to be. And this morning when I spoke with him, he was
so concerned that the Portugal police were under such pressure, he
says, Ed, I would not be surprised if they, you know, did plant evidence in the car, you know, to have them think that there's DNA in this
car that I rented after the fact is just outrageous, and what could
they possibly have? There's no chance in the world. And you
know, he is just ... (26)
LK : Boy. You'd go berserk (fou furieux) if you didn't do it.
ES :
Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I really feel in my heart there's
not a chance that they were in any way involved. You know, the police
have got to wake up and realize that they have got to focus where the
focus needs to be, and they need to do this forensic artwork this
they need to get the picture out there. The public is what creates
awareness, what brings children home. And if they are focusing on
things that are nonproductive, which is what they're doing now, then,
you know, Madeleine is somewhere. (27)
MG : Yes, as recently as last week.
LK : And if they were innocent, isn't that the hardest thing to live through, not only is your child gone, but you're being accused?
MG : Well, it's twofold or maybe even threefold what the problem is here. First of all, you're being accused. No parent, as we've discussed before countless times, ever wants to even imagine that their child is going to die before them. I mean, it's the worst thing you could ever have. Then when you have the police - when you cooperate with the police and then when the suspicion starts to get focused on you or the accusation's on you, that compounds matters, and it compounds just the sense of confusion and shock. But then when you're this far removed from that initially and you see that they're wasting their time and their resources on you, you want to reach out and choke somebody. It's just ridiculous at a certain point. (28)
LK : Stacey, is the prosecutor between a rock and a hard place in
something like this?
SH :
Well, I think what we really are losing sight of is the fact that
when you are doing an investigation, if certain leads come up, for
instance, this alleged blood evidence found in their car, you have
no choice but to go down that avenue. Once again, I'm going to
tell you, they're not charged with a crime, Mark.MG : Wait a second.
SH : They are not charged with a crime.
MG : OK. Can I just ask you a question here, Stacey?
SH : Wait. They have to be able to investigate.
MG : If they found blood in that car, how are they going to say at this insipient stage of the investigation we know it was an accident, we're going to offer you two years ? If they honestly believe that this woman had something to do with it, why are they offering her, you'll be out of this in a year ? And how insulting is that that if she didn't do it, she would take that one year and put it behind her ? Why? Because she never wants to find her child again? So the investigation will stop? How stupid. It's utterly stupid. (29)
SH : I'm not saying what the police did by saying to her, listen, take this plea and we'll get it all over with, I can't tell you why they did that.
MG : Because they're brain dead.
LK : Let her finish, Mark.
MG : They're brain dead.SH :People are asking questions, why are they interviewing the parents?
MG : Because they're desperate.
SH : If they focus in on the family, they have to. OK ?
MG : They already did. They've had four months. They've had four months to do it. It's obviously pure desperation.
SH : Can I ask you one question? Do we have any idea if any of the statements between the mother and the father, and I don't know so I'm not saying - do we know if there were inconsistencies ?
MG : Of course there's going to be, yes.
SH : There could be evidence that we don't know about.
MG : Of course there are inconsistencies. Nobody's going to be ...
LK : Robert Moore, has the public generally supported this couple in Portugal?
LK : Think we're going to solve it, Mark?
MG : No, I don't think they are. I think -- well, are they going to solve it correctly?
LK : Yeah.
MG : That's probably a better question. They may solve it, and I'm not so sure that the way they solve it will be the correct way.
LK : Stacey?
SH : I don't think anybody knows anything. I hope they find the child
alive, that's the bottom line to all of this.
LK : Ed Smart, are they confident -- are the parents confident?
ES :
The parents are very confident that she's still out there. And with
that confidence, I hope they're able to move forward and focus on
what needs to be focused on and find this girl.LK : Did you remain confident throughout?
ES : I did. I felt like Elizabeth was out there. I had these impressions, and I could not give up. And I know that Gerry and Kate feel the same way.
LK : Jon, you think we're going to find Madeleine?
JC :
I absolutely hope so. I think Ed's got it spot on there. I think in
the U.S., you're world experts on child exploitation and being able
to deal with these abduction issues. I think Europe is absolutely decades behind. One thing that will come out of all of this, whatever happens, is that Europe really has to wake up and do something about its boundaries and Praia da Luz is a very, very sleepy place. It doesn't even have a police force. And I think Kate and Gerry were in the wrong place at the wrong time. (30) 
(1) Le Larry
King Live, créé en 1985 et diffusé la nuit par la CNN, fut
(la dernière a eu lieu fin décembre 2010) le plus regardé
des talk shows, chaque session comptant plus d’un million de
spectateurs. La critique reprochait à Larry King d’y aller plus en
douceur que les animateurs de talk shows en général, hors c'est à cela précisément qu'il dut une partie de son succès, puisque LR réussit ainsi à interviewer des gens qui ne seraient pas allés ailleurs.
Figure
légendaire de la culture américaine, aussi inévitable que Mickey
Mouse, LK sut offrir un tremplin sûr pour ceux qui voulaient assurer
leur position sans prendre le risque de questions dérangeantes.
(2) Tout
commença donc, dans une émission vue un peu partout sur la planète,
par une accusation grave à l’endroit de la police portugaise qui
semble n’avoir troublé personne. Il est étonnant par ailleurs
qu’au pays du 1er amendement le droit de réponse ne se soit pas
imposé ipso facto. On n’est plus au temps des duels où les
questions d’honneur se résolvaient par l’épée, mais au temps
des firmes d’avocats spécialisées dans la diffamation. Aucune
plainte n’a été portée.
Dans l'histoire est entrée l'idée que non seulement KMC avait perdu sa fille, non seulement elle était suspecte d'implication dans la disparition d'un cadavre, mais encore elle était l'objet de vils marchandages !
Dans l'histoire est entrée l'idée que non seulement KMC avait perdu sa fille, non seulement elle était suspecte d'implication dans la disparition d'un cadavre, mais encore elle était l'objet de vils marchandages !
Plus
tard, l’avocat portugais des MC, présent avant même
la constitution des parents comme témoins assistés, mais que Larry King ne songea pas à interroger, dut démentir (The Guardian)
l’existence d’un tel marché, typique en droit coutumier (plutôt accusatoire), mais exclu en droit civil (plutôt inquisitoire). L'avocat s'était-il mal fait comprendre de sa cliente ? Lui avait-il dit que si elle avouait un accident, le recel de cadavre ne lui vaudrait qu'une amende ?
(3) David Payne.
(4) Cet "un peu plus tard" fut quand même 2 heures plus tard.
(5) On conviendra que Philomena n'a pu inventer ce plea bargain, même si elle ignorait que la "négociation de plaidoyer" n'avait pas cours au Portugal. Elle contribua à en faire une rumeur qui se développa avec la célérité rendue possible par un réseau médiatique vaste et bien implanté, influençant manifestement le discours de certains invités de Larry King. Quant à croire qu'une sentence puisse être infligée en cas d'accident domestique non intentionnel, il faut faire fi du sens inné de la tragédie. Le secret de justice, si utile quand on veut se taire, n'a jamais étranglé personne.
(6) PMC s’emploie à convaincre l'auditoire de Larry King que son frère et sa belle-soeur ont fait tout leur possible pour aider la police, alors que pratiquement au même moment KMC refuse de répondre aux 48 questions que lui pose la PJ dont les soupçons sont au détriment de la recherche de Madeleine : ils (les MC) la cherchent encore, mais la police non.
(7) PMC est une fidèle exemplaire. La police essaie de suggérer quelque accident ridicule, les MC auraient caché le corps de Madeleine pendant 25 jours, puis l'auraient mis ailleurs. C’est complètement stupide, voire scandaleux parce qu'ils n'ont pas été une seconde hors des feux de la rampe. La spéculation est stupide parce que les projecteurs n'ont pas cessé d'être braqués sur les MC ?
(8) Ce journaliste, à défaut de source, ne répète que la rumeur d'offre de réduction de peine provenant du DIC de Portimão et propagée grâce au téléphone cellulaire par Philomena MC
(9) Les MC ont été questionnés extrêmement rigoureusement et soigneusement est typiquement un témoignage indirect, un ouï-dire. A-t-on jamais, autant que dans cette affaire, fait passer comme témoignage direct ce qui ne l'était pas ? Rétrospectivement, à lire les contradictions d'une déposition à l'autre, pour ne rien dire de Kate MC se dérobant à la seconde déposition, on se dit que JC était vraiment mal informé. Si les MC avaient subi un interrogatoire serré, séparément, il aurait raison de trouver bizarre et hors du sens commun qu’on revienne sur cette question après 4 mois. Il semble par ailleurs ne pas avoir entendu parler de ses compatriotes canins.
(10) Quid des chiens préconisés par le spécialiste britannique des personnes disparues, Mark Harrison ? Intempestifs, inconvenants, déplacés ?
(11) Encore un ouï-dire : la police n'a rien fait de ce qu'elle aurait dû faire.
(12) S'ils étaient coupables ils seraient repartis au RU et auraient laissé l'affaire s'éteindre. Pourquoi ne pas lire dans l'autre sens ? S'ils étaient rentrés chez eux et avaient laissé l'affaire s'enliser, on serait en droit de les soupçonner.
(13) En fait d'oeillères, Luc VI, 42 recommande d'ôter d'abord la poutre de son œil afin de voir clair pour enlever la paille qui est dans l'œil de son frère.
(14) John Walsh, dont le petit garçon de 6 ans, laissé seul une dizaine de minutes dans un supermarché, a été retrouvé assassiné, a lui-même été soupçonné par la police, lorsque l’enquête tournait à vide. Il observe justement que la police portugaise n’a pas d’expérience en fait de kidnapping, dispose de peu de ressources, et s'est trouvée sous une forte pression médiatique internationale. S'il n’hésite pas à déclarer que, frustrée et sans autre suspect, il n’est pas rare que la police se concentre sur la famille, il n'est pas si loin de l'opinion de la PJ elle-même : après avoir couru au plus pressé qui était de se donner toutes les chances de retrouver l'enfant, les enquêteurs sont revenus en arrière. Rétropédalage faute de mieux ou retour à la case départ, ça a mal fonctionné, le Ministère public n'obtiendra pas l'accord des principaux témoins pour une reconstitution des faits, etc.
(15) Cyril Wecht signale que du sang déposé sur un vêtement ou un objet peut être transféré sur un autre (contamination). Il se pose des questions qui montrent qu'en fait il ne sait rien de cette affaire. Etant donné les limites temporelles, il considère que le corps ne peut avoir été très loin et que l’aire géographique devrait avoir été cherchée très méticuleusement. La nuit du 3 mai et les jours suivants on cherchait une petite fille vivante ! Il doute de la culpabilité des MC pour des raisons olfactives : où aurait été déposé le corps pendant tous ces jours (les 25 avant la location de la voiture) ? Certes...
(16) Candice Delong remarque que les informations discutées dans le talk show n’ont pas été confirmées par la police. Elle souligne aussi que les parents ne sont pas devenus tout d’un coup suspects, ils ont dû l’être hypothétiquement dès le début. Il y a une raison à cela, ajoute-t-elle, c’est que dans la très grande majorité des cas de disparition d’enfants de cet âge, pratiquement 75%, l’enfant a été tué par un parent.
(17) CW rapporte que la mort de petits enfants est souvent accidentelle : un parent a frappé trop fort. Parfois il y a une mise en scène d'assassinat par un tiers pour échapper au blâme ou à la justice, parfois même un recel de cadavre.
(18) Selon CW, qui admet que des crimes terribles ont été commis par des médecins, argumente que les MC, étant tous deux médecins, savent qu'un violent coup sur la tête peut produire une hémorragie intracrânienne. On ne peut donc s'attendre à ce que des médecins frappent fatalement leur fille, car ils en savent les conséquences. On ne s'attend à cela de personne tout court. Mais un médecin en colère est-il d'abord en colère ou d'abord médecin? Et puis parfois une simple gifle déséquilibre et fait tomber, mal tomber..
CW pense qu'on ne retrouvera jamais le corps et que si on retrouve des os on ne pourra déterminer la cause de la mort.
(19) Au moment (peut-être) où Kate MC répond positivement à la seule 49è question : avez-vous conscience qu'en ne répondant pas vous mettez des bâtons dans les roues de l'enquête ?
(20) Quid des 48 questions auxquelles Kate a refusé de répondre ?
(21) Selon le criminal defense attorney, bien dans son rôle semble-t-il, les soupçons sont ridicules car les MC se sont comportés correctement, d'où le grand soutien dont ils jouissent.
(22) MG fait remarquer qu'il est très difficile de se défaire d'une désignation comme suspect, surtout si l’affaire n’est pas résolue. Ça vous suit pour le reste de votre vie.
C'est probablement assez vrai et rejoint ce que dira l'ordonnance de classement : innocents, la reconstitution qu'ils ont rejetée aurait pu établir ce qu'ils désiraient tant.
(23) MG se demande pourquoi la police a révélé le statut d’arguido, mais c’est l’avocat des MC qui a fait cette déclaration (peut-être pour donner à entendre qu'il n'y avait aucune charge contre eux). En principe le secret de l'instruction protège victimes et suspects. La PJ a bon dos, qui ne pouvait révéler un marché absent du système inquisitoire.
(24) Selon la profiler CD, il est très peu probable, statistiquement, que Madeleine ait été prise par un tiers pour quelque sorte de raison malfaisante.
(25) Remarquant que personne n’aurait pu imaginer que l’emballement médiatique aurait été aussi intense JC en déduit que c'est devenu un embarras national pour les Portugais et qu'une vraie pression pèse sur la police pour clore l’affaire. Il y a aussi une différence culturelle parce que les Portugais, selon leur manière de voir, considèrent que c’est un problème britannique qui a été importé dans leur pays. Cette focalisation sur la famille fait partie d’une tentative culturelle de mettre un terme à l’affaire comme étant une question britannique. Il n’a pas vraiment tort... mais le Portugal a conscience de n'être qu'un petit pays face à une grande puissance qui le lui fait sentir, n'en serait-ce qu'à travers sa batterie de tabloïds.
(26) Ed Smart prétend que parler de Madeleine morte détourne l’attention. Gerald MC (qui l'a appelé juste avant d'être constitué arguido) lui a confié qu’il ne serait pas étonné, étant la pression, que la PJ ait planté des preuves dans l’auto. Gerald espérait-il que Ed Smart ébruite ce soupçon? A-t-il essayé de réintérer le coup des persiennes/fenêtre forcées ?
(27) Ed Smart est un fidèle : il sent dans son coeur qu’ils ne peuvent être impliqués d’une manière ou d’une autre et conseille à la police de se réveiller et de réaliser qu’il leur faut se concentrer là où la concentration doit porter (sic) et qu’il faut qu’ils fassent exécuter et publient le portrait robot (Tannerman) car c’est le public qui suscite la prise de conscience, qui ramène les enfants à la maison.
Une des erreurs majeures, selon ES, est de ne pas avoir fait appel à un spécialiste, quelqu’un qui aurait une position de surplomb, autrement dit un profiler.
(28) MG rappelle que le pire qui puisse arriver à un parent est de voir son enfant mourir avant lui, car c’est contraire à l’ordre des choses. Mais être accusé de surcroît ! Vous coopérez avec la police et tout d’un coup la police commence à vous suspecter ! Confusion et choc. Doit-on s'étonner si, voyant la police perdre son temps et ses ressources sur vous, vous avez envie de hurler ?
Tout cela est très juste et montre l'intérêt de répondre aux questions et d'accueillir favorablement toute reconstitution. Des parents se soumettent volontairement au sérum de vérité, c'est pour, en étant éliminés de l'enquête, permettre aux forces de police de se concentrer sur la victime.
(29) Les dés sont pipés par la rumeur, les interventions sont condamnées à dérailler et les intervenants à dire des inepties (they're brain dead !).
(30) À JC le mot de la fin : PDL est un endroit très, très endormi qui n’a même pas une force de police... d’où il déduit que les MC étaient au mauvais endroit au mauvais moment.
(4) Cet "un peu plus tard" fut quand même 2 heures plus tard.
(5) On conviendra que Philomena n'a pu inventer ce plea bargain, même si elle ignorait que la "négociation de plaidoyer" n'avait pas cours au Portugal. Elle contribua à en faire une rumeur qui se développa avec la célérité rendue possible par un réseau médiatique vaste et bien implanté, influençant manifestement le discours de certains invités de Larry King. Quant à croire qu'une sentence puisse être infligée en cas d'accident domestique non intentionnel, il faut faire fi du sens inné de la tragédie. Le secret de justice, si utile quand on veut se taire, n'a jamais étranglé personne.
(6) PMC s’emploie à convaincre l'auditoire de Larry King que son frère et sa belle-soeur ont fait tout leur possible pour aider la police, alors que pratiquement au même moment KMC refuse de répondre aux 48 questions que lui pose la PJ dont les soupçons sont au détriment de la recherche de Madeleine : ils (les MC) la cherchent encore, mais la police non.
(7) PMC est une fidèle exemplaire. La police essaie de suggérer quelque accident ridicule, les MC auraient caché le corps de Madeleine pendant 25 jours, puis l'auraient mis ailleurs. C’est complètement stupide, voire scandaleux parce qu'ils n'ont pas été une seconde hors des feux de la rampe. La spéculation est stupide parce que les projecteurs n'ont pas cessé d'être braqués sur les MC ?
(8) Ce journaliste, à défaut de source, ne répète que la rumeur d'offre de réduction de peine provenant du DIC de Portimão et propagée grâce au téléphone cellulaire par Philomena MC
(9) Les MC ont été questionnés extrêmement rigoureusement et soigneusement est typiquement un témoignage indirect, un ouï-dire. A-t-on jamais, autant que dans cette affaire, fait passer comme témoignage direct ce qui ne l'était pas ? Rétrospectivement, à lire les contradictions d'une déposition à l'autre, pour ne rien dire de Kate MC se dérobant à la seconde déposition, on se dit que JC était vraiment mal informé. Si les MC avaient subi un interrogatoire serré, séparément, il aurait raison de trouver bizarre et hors du sens commun qu’on revienne sur cette question après 4 mois. Il semble par ailleurs ne pas avoir entendu parler de ses compatriotes canins.
(10) Quid des chiens préconisés par le spécialiste britannique des personnes disparues, Mark Harrison ? Intempestifs, inconvenants, déplacés ?
(11) Encore un ouï-dire : la police n'a rien fait de ce qu'elle aurait dû faire.
(12) S'ils étaient coupables ils seraient repartis au RU et auraient laissé l'affaire s'éteindre. Pourquoi ne pas lire dans l'autre sens ? S'ils étaient rentrés chez eux et avaient laissé l'affaire s'enliser, on serait en droit de les soupçonner.
(13) En fait d'oeillères, Luc VI, 42 recommande d'ôter d'abord la poutre de son œil afin de voir clair pour enlever la paille qui est dans l'œil de son frère.
(14) John Walsh, dont le petit garçon de 6 ans, laissé seul une dizaine de minutes dans un supermarché, a été retrouvé assassiné, a lui-même été soupçonné par la police, lorsque l’enquête tournait à vide. Il observe justement que la police portugaise n’a pas d’expérience en fait de kidnapping, dispose de peu de ressources, et s'est trouvée sous une forte pression médiatique internationale. S'il n’hésite pas à déclarer que, frustrée et sans autre suspect, il n’est pas rare que la police se concentre sur la famille, il n'est pas si loin de l'opinion de la PJ elle-même : après avoir couru au plus pressé qui était de se donner toutes les chances de retrouver l'enfant, les enquêteurs sont revenus en arrière. Rétropédalage faute de mieux ou retour à la case départ, ça a mal fonctionné, le Ministère public n'obtiendra pas l'accord des principaux témoins pour une reconstitution des faits, etc.
(15) Cyril Wecht signale que du sang déposé sur un vêtement ou un objet peut être transféré sur un autre (contamination). Il se pose des questions qui montrent qu'en fait il ne sait rien de cette affaire. Etant donné les limites temporelles, il considère que le corps ne peut avoir été très loin et que l’aire géographique devrait avoir été cherchée très méticuleusement. La nuit du 3 mai et les jours suivants on cherchait une petite fille vivante ! Il doute de la culpabilité des MC pour des raisons olfactives : où aurait été déposé le corps pendant tous ces jours (les 25 avant la location de la voiture) ? Certes...
(16) Candice Delong remarque que les informations discutées dans le talk show n’ont pas été confirmées par la police. Elle souligne aussi que les parents ne sont pas devenus tout d’un coup suspects, ils ont dû l’être hypothétiquement dès le début. Il y a une raison à cela, ajoute-t-elle, c’est que dans la très grande majorité des cas de disparition d’enfants de cet âge, pratiquement 75%, l’enfant a été tué par un parent.
(17) CW rapporte que la mort de petits enfants est souvent accidentelle : un parent a frappé trop fort. Parfois il y a une mise en scène d'assassinat par un tiers pour échapper au blâme ou à la justice, parfois même un recel de cadavre.
(18) Selon CW, qui admet que des crimes terribles ont été commis par des médecins, argumente que les MC, étant tous deux médecins, savent qu'un violent coup sur la tête peut produire une hémorragie intracrânienne. On ne peut donc s'attendre à ce que des médecins frappent fatalement leur fille, car ils en savent les conséquences. On ne s'attend à cela de personne tout court. Mais un médecin en colère est-il d'abord en colère ou d'abord médecin? Et puis parfois une simple gifle déséquilibre et fait tomber, mal tomber..
CW pense qu'on ne retrouvera jamais le corps et que si on retrouve des os on ne pourra déterminer la cause de la mort.
(19) Au moment (peut-être) où Kate MC répond positivement à la seule 49è question : avez-vous conscience qu'en ne répondant pas vous mettez des bâtons dans les roues de l'enquête ?
(20) Quid des 48 questions auxquelles Kate a refusé de répondre ?
(21) Selon le criminal defense attorney, bien dans son rôle semble-t-il, les soupçons sont ridicules car les MC se sont comportés correctement, d'où le grand soutien dont ils jouissent.
(22) MG fait remarquer qu'il est très difficile de se défaire d'une désignation comme suspect, surtout si l’affaire n’est pas résolue. Ça vous suit pour le reste de votre vie.
C'est probablement assez vrai et rejoint ce que dira l'ordonnance de classement : innocents, la reconstitution qu'ils ont rejetée aurait pu établir ce qu'ils désiraient tant.
(23) MG se demande pourquoi la police a révélé le statut d’arguido, mais c’est l’avocat des MC qui a fait cette déclaration (peut-être pour donner à entendre qu'il n'y avait aucune charge contre eux). En principe le secret de l'instruction protège victimes et suspects. La PJ a bon dos, qui ne pouvait révéler un marché absent du système inquisitoire.
(24) Selon la profiler CD, il est très peu probable, statistiquement, que Madeleine ait été prise par un tiers pour quelque sorte de raison malfaisante.
(25) Remarquant que personne n’aurait pu imaginer que l’emballement médiatique aurait été aussi intense JC en déduit que c'est devenu un embarras national pour les Portugais et qu'une vraie pression pèse sur la police pour clore l’affaire. Il y a aussi une différence culturelle parce que les Portugais, selon leur manière de voir, considèrent que c’est un problème britannique qui a été importé dans leur pays. Cette focalisation sur la famille fait partie d’une tentative culturelle de mettre un terme à l’affaire comme étant une question britannique. Il n’a pas vraiment tort... mais le Portugal a conscience de n'être qu'un petit pays face à une grande puissance qui le lui fait sentir, n'en serait-ce qu'à travers sa batterie de tabloïds.
(26) Ed Smart prétend que parler de Madeleine morte détourne l’attention. Gerald MC (qui l'a appelé juste avant d'être constitué arguido) lui a confié qu’il ne serait pas étonné, étant la pression, que la PJ ait planté des preuves dans l’auto. Gerald espérait-il que Ed Smart ébruite ce soupçon? A-t-il essayé de réintérer le coup des persiennes/fenêtre forcées ?
(27) Ed Smart est un fidèle : il sent dans son coeur qu’ils ne peuvent être impliqués d’une manière ou d’une autre et conseille à la police de se réveiller et de réaliser qu’il leur faut se concentrer là où la concentration doit porter (sic) et qu’il faut qu’ils fassent exécuter et publient le portrait robot (Tannerman) car c’est le public qui suscite la prise de conscience, qui ramène les enfants à la maison.
Une des erreurs majeures, selon ES, est de ne pas avoir fait appel à un spécialiste, quelqu’un qui aurait une position de surplomb, autrement dit un profiler.
(28) MG rappelle que le pire qui puisse arriver à un parent est de voir son enfant mourir avant lui, car c’est contraire à l’ordre des choses. Mais être accusé de surcroît ! Vous coopérez avec la police et tout d’un coup la police commence à vous suspecter ! Confusion et choc. Doit-on s'étonner si, voyant la police perdre son temps et ses ressources sur vous, vous avez envie de hurler ?
Tout cela est très juste et montre l'intérêt de répondre aux questions et d'accueillir favorablement toute reconstitution. Des parents se soumettent volontairement au sérum de vérité, c'est pour, en étant éliminés de l'enquête, permettre aux forces de police de se concentrer sur la victime.
(29) Les dés sont pipés par la rumeur, les interventions sont condamnées à dérailler et les intervenants à dire des inepties (they're brain dead !).
(30) À JC le mot de la fin : PDL est un endroit très, très endormi qui n’a même pas une force de police... d’où il déduit que les MC étaient au mauvais endroit au mauvais moment.
